DPS DOK NERF

[Wdova]

Nerf is totally unnecessary!
Yes dps DoK in warband is a thing. As much as WL and SW.
Not anymore for the DoK, transition of this emo class from borderline useful to totally useless and unwanted. Good job on this one, let’s add the 24 AoE cap **** up while we are at it.

Only the narrow minded fail in thinking outside of the box regarding warband compositions.
But this typology of player is to be found plenty on this server.

6v6 dominated by dps DoK? For sure not because fell sacrifice triggered Curse of khaine, or essence lash or devouring essence.
Dps DoK should ea in numbers only if left unchecked during the fight, a good slayer is as dominating
6v6 is single target oriented, pick a primary and secondary, punt tank, stun heal = win.


This hot fix has 0 transparency - 100% Biased - ruining a class and an alternative tactical approach towards warband meta.

dps DoK was and is crap choice for warband, same for WL and SW. Sure you can shoot wet noodles, but don't expect to win against anything other than a pile of pugs. Your dmg output is probably 0.5-0.75% of choppas, and Essence Lash being on 5s cd and aoe dot requiring cast time kinda prevent you from applying noticeable continuous dmg pressure in aoe fights. Devour Essence was probably a nice trick for applying hdbuff over potential 150(+10ft radius) range, but might have been slightly too powerful for a mdps, maybe it could apply hdbuff if it was limited to 40-60ft range, but not when over 100ft. Though the ability mirrors somewhat Slayer ID, which is also a pulsating DOT, which they prevented from firing off procs maybe 1-2 years ago. (it probably caused procs to fire on live, but "fixed" here)
Also it is not narrowmindedness, you can always consider niche options, but then you can do math regarding what their expected dmg output is in AoE fights and how they compare to other available classes, which results in classes like Magus (pet dies, dmg drops) and Choppa (barely able to keep up with Sorc dps in close range [9target limit on Lotsa] + high risk) being considered already halfway out of meta classes vs safe picks like Sorc (high dmg at range + close range) and Mara (mediocre-high dmg, high utility) and Zdps (high utility) being way superior pick choices.


They still retain their permanent uptime hdbuff if sticking in meleerange, remaining better than other hdbuff spammers in meleetrains.
Zealot+RP still have a different kind of hdebuff for warband use, whereas DoK is probably closer to the WP hdbuffing potential, which is still certainly inferior.

Dps dok had its place in warband not because of 0,5-0,75% off choppa damage, but because of heal debuff
Remove AOE from heal debuff means dps dok lost his place in warband.

As You stated now nobody want crap aoe damage dok in warband anymore and his place can be taken by choppa for superb aoe or WE for superb single target who can provide incoming and outgoing heal debuff at same time.

[Sapblatter]

OMG devs order bias, wasn't people screaming they was destro bias last week? Dam these devs change sides more than the xrealmers do,

[Halan]

when it is really wanted that the HD doesn't proc on any AOE then it is a really good & needed change.

[Aurandilaz]

Dps dok had its place in warband not because of 0,5-0,75% off choppa damage, but because of heal debuff
Remove AOE from heal debuff means dps dok lost his place in warband.

As You stated now nobody want crap aoe damage dok in warband anymore and his place can be taken by choppa for superb aoe or WE for superb single target who can provide incoming and outgoing heal debuff at same time.

You had zealot with 10s healdebuff, and with other toos like option for Stagger, or for WoI and corp/armor debuff. Meanwhile DOK would have been brought to just healdebuff. So you pick zealot for the healdebuff-utility slot in a warband, especially since theirs is magic dmg, and DOK physical mostly, meaning Zealot has better chances of spreading it on tanks as well.
The classes you wanted for WB are Sorc Mara Zdps, then maybe on Magus and Choppa, then if nothing better you might consider Squig and then if really nothing else to pick then maybe a dps DoK (before this nerf lul).
If the class needed CD reducer to spam Essence Lash to spread debuffs, maybe it was never really a proper AoE class in the first place.

This change has greater impact on 6v6 fights I'd say, then the 2-5 dps DoK players who insisted they could do something in in warbands previously.

[Hypernia]

It really damages one of the main strengths of DPS DoK which was HD on the guard tanks in order to generate more pressure on enemy healers. Removing this ability entirely means it now has very few tools in order to make up the pure DPS gap between bringing a proper MDPS class. It just leads to SCs over and over where you can't kill anything even with guard punts because of a lack of burst - and you can't grind down through AOE pressure either.

Allow it back on Devour Essence at least, which hits 4 targets and only has 5s/20s uptime. If you're using it on CD for the debuff then you don't always have it when you need the extra healing output.

Pointless heavy handed nerf to the one thing DPS DoK is actually good at. GG.

[blechkautz]

Aurandilaz, please stop flooding serious posts with your lack of knowledge again and again over the years.
5sec cooldown decrease by chop fastah and more choppin em.
DPS DoK spamming Essence is viable.
DPS DoK casting Devour essence on a tank or backline focusing dps is viable.
DPS DoK casting Fell Sacrifice in a counterfunnel is viable.
Backline/flanking with a dps DoK in a team is viable.




Dps DoK is key component of a serious warband, as a dps zealot. No heal debuff, no pressure. You realize that agains a serious warband - order vs destro - it’s group 40% heal increase vs 50% Heal debuff.
So bitch please.

The ability of a WL and SE to basically teleport onto any target makes it a key component of a serious setup too. As said, narrow minded.


This nerf is literally the worse.

Nerf Engi overpowered M3 please. 3.8k direct dmg + 30 sec armor debuff.
Nerf Slayer rampage please, 20sec ignoring 100% all defenses.
How would you even consider something like that.

Maybe before accusing someone to have a lack of knowledge, you should do your own homework.
Engi m3 is not 3.8k direkt dmg and if you bring that heal increase from order up, you should maybe mention, that destro has 25% heal increase aswell (50% on a single target if you consider Shammy), while order has no aoe healdebuff. Also do you really think that one aoe dot from dok together with devour essence (which only hits 4 targets and has only 25% uptime) and one direkt dmg aoe ability (which has a 5s cooldown so you need a cd decreaser to spam it) creates any serious aoe pressure? Sure the hd was a thing, but as Aurandilaz said, it got outshined alot bei dps zealot.
The chage aimed completly on the smallscale gameplay.

[Flavorburst]

Devour Essence was probably a nice trick for applying hdbuff over potential 150(+10ft radius) range, but might have been slightly too powerful for a mdps, maybe it could apply hdbuff if it was limited to 40-60ft range, but not when over 100ft. Though the ability mirrors somewhat Slayer ID, which is also a pulsating DOT, which they prevented from firing off procs maybe 1-2 years ago. (it probably caused procs to fire on live, but "fixed" here)

Kinda disagree with your reasoning, as this isn't a fair comparison.

ID "can" hit 24 targets, you can have a few of them up at the same time (especially if you have WW), you can use it with rampage, and it doesn't gobble up resources.

DE hits a max of 4 targets, you can only have 1 up at a time (even with waaagh), it can be blocked and parried, and it gobbles up soul essence (you can use 1 DE and 1 soul rend before you are basically out of soul essence).

[Aurandilaz]

Devour Essence was probably a nice trick for applying hdbuff over potential 150(+10ft radius) range, but might have been slightly too powerful for a mdps, maybe it could apply hdbuff if it was limited to 40-60ft range, but not when over 100ft. Though the ability mirrors somewhat Slayer ID, which is also a pulsating DOT, which they prevented from firing off procs maybe 1-2 years ago. (it probably caused procs to fire on live, but "fixed" here)

Kinda disagree with your reasoning, as this isn't a fair comparison.

ID "can" hit 24 targets, you can have a few of them up at the same time (especially if you have WW), you can use it with rampage, and it doesn't gobble up resources.

DE hits a max of 4 targets, you can only have 1 up at a time (even with waaagh), it can be blocked and parried, and it gobbles up soul essence (you can use 1 DE and 1 soul rend before you are basically out of soul essence).

Well, yoy can also add in Detonate, Gloom of Night, Spreading Flames to the list - none of them should be causing other procs to fire, they may not have SE cost like DE but they cause similar pulsating dmg/dot thing happening. Maybe Devour Essence deserves exception, not up to me, but ability to fire hdbuffs as a mdps from 150ft+ is kinda "strong".

Either all pulsating dmg abilities should fire off procs, or none should. Or we go back to "exception xyz" regarding abilities A B C. (which this game is honestly still quite full of)

[Flavorburst]

Devour Essence was probably a nice trick for applying hdbuff over potential 150(+10ft radius) range, but might have been slightly too powerful for a mdps, maybe it could apply hdbuff if it was limited to 40-60ft range, but not when over 100ft. Though the ability mirrors somewhat Slayer ID, which is also a pulsating DOT, which they prevented from firing off procs maybe 1-2 years ago. (it probably caused procs to fire on live, but "fixed" here)

Kinda disagree with your reasoning, as this isn't a fair comparison.

ID "can" hit 24 targets, you can have a few of them up at the same time (especially if you have WW), you can use it with rampage, and it doesn't gobble up resources.

DE hits a max of 4 targets, you can only have 1 up at a time (even with waaagh), it can be blocked and parried, and it gobbles up soul essence (you can use 1 DE and 1 soul rend before you are basically out of soul essence).

Well, yoy can also add in Detonate, Gloom of Night, Spreading Flames to the list - none of them should be causing other procs to fire, they may not have SE cost like DE but they cause similar pulsating dmg/dot thing happening. Maybe Devour Essence deserves exception, not up to me, but ability to fire hdbuffs as a mdps from 150ft+ is kinda "strong".

Either all pulsating dmg abilities should fire off procs, or none should. Or we go back to "exception xyz" regarding abilities A B C. (which this game is honestly still quite full of)

Even in the alternatives you put forward, it's still not a fair comparison because they build mechanic instead of depleting it, can hit more than 4 targets, etc.

I could see an easier comparison made with the abilities you mentioned and FS (which would make the nerf to HD on FS critting make more sense).

That said, there are plenty of channeled abilities that proc stuff (like ether dance proccing blurring shock), which I think is a more apt comparison (when specifically talking about whether it "should" proc things).

[Secrets]

Hiding ability changes in hotfixes under spoiler tags isn't exactly the image of transparency, is it?

Also randomly doing it hours after a real patch during reboot to fix forts :*)

This was actually going to go in next week. If we pushed the DB without the code, it would have been not working at all, and Natherul needed to push some unrelated DB fixes.

We're evaluating to see if this is enough to resolve the balance issues with DoKs in 6v6, and if it's not, we'll make further adjustments.

So far, I think it is. Maybe a bit too harsh, we'll re-evaluate.