[Dev] White Lion proposal

[Arthem]

Could you explain how binding attack and retreat outweighs the negatives of the following: The target can turn around and run the other direction. The pet can be killed easily. The pet can be taunted or CC'd.As this is being used as justification to nerf the role a WL has which is single target dmg and small scale pvp (as its not performing in fort fights, warband play etc).

While a WL frontload burst is better, its survivability and sustained dmg is not comparable to Marauder who's CC isn't associated with any of the negatives above.


I also think the proposals are too drastic. The frontload burst and CC is largely on Brutal Pounce and LF. Ruining WL utility by changing Hunter / Axeman doesn't seem to be a good solution.

[Liandel]

I'm not sure how hitting the attack button (which I have had keybound since 2008, tyvm) will make the lion run fast enough to catch up to a target that is using their movement keys. The pet moves as fast as a normally moving player unless you use a 30 second cooldown charge ability or use a tactic slot to make it go faster. Hitting the keybound attack key doesn't magically make the pet run any better, nor does it make the pet invincible to CC or death. It's always easier and more reliable to have the CC based off of yourself so you can control your own movement and hit the cc ability when you're in range.

I'm also really puzzled why your changes are messing around with coordinated strike and hunter/axemen abilities when the hard-hitting ability is Leonine Frenzy, an ability in the guardian tree. These changes also ruin the spirit of the trees, which are:

Hunter: Damage/utility split 50/50 among the lion
Axemen: Utility and damage far more on the human player than the NPC
Guardian: Utility and damage far more dependent on the pet

Moving thin the herd to guardian makes no sense, because that's a player-based ability and you would go up Axemen for it because you're building your character to base damage/utiltiy off of yourself instead of your lion. Why should you need to spec the pet tree to make yourself, the player, more useful?

Swapping things around in the trees randomly just because it's 13 points isn't good. It deprives the specialization paths of their uniqueness and purpose. Each path is supposed to orient your character to be able to do a certain thing well. This jumbles all three of the trees even worse than they already are, and destroys every spec that is considered viable currently.

The spec all the PUGs who can't find their detaunt button and movement keys are complaining about is path of the guardian.

Not only that, but if you kill or CC the pet, coordinated strike only hits once. You need a pet to be on a target within 35 feet of you to get the multiple hits. So you're wanting to move a core ability that costs 45 AP that is pet dependent deep into a specialization tree. There are already ways around the burst, this change is completely unnecessary.

[Alubert]

Whatever you do to reduce the WL burst will be good.
I would also remove WL / MARA Cull the Weak / Guillotine "always crit" component for every supported option. Things like "always crit" and "undefendable" - (mainly slayer rampage) should not exist in RoR at all.

[bctakhy]

Will be nice also add to all pets, not only WL, a reducction on dmg when away owner. Have pets ignoring walls, hiting like players when u inside a keep without any risk cos owner is safe outside keep sux when combined by multiple players.

[Spierron]

it's a DPS Class instead of nerf the burst, the only thing that have the WL because unlike others their substain damage is clearly lower than the others DPS, we must not forget that his role is to kill.

Option 1 is clearly a nerf and option 2 is potentially a huge buff in group play (most of tank/dps have a kd, having an outgoing debuff heal will help them to kill more easily a heal)

the problem comes from the guardian spec,

Brutal Pounce, it's OFF GCD and after the patch who boosted the damage from all pet now does too much damage for an ability who provide a KD and off gcd. a) move in on gcd b)nerf the damage as it was before the change on pet

Leonine Frenzy, the tooltip said 'your pet will deal an additional physical damage..' but the damage come from the player and not the pet. if we detaunt the pet, the damage from LF should be affected too.

Fang and Claw (ability pet from TTK), it has always been too strong and should be reworked

if the issue of the WL is too powerful no matter what his spec, then Pounce should be the one moved at 13pt in hunter tree and not CS

It's my point of view from dess side (never played WL on RoR, so maybe i'm wrong)

sorry for my bad english

[Nefarian78]

I feel that both suggestions do not hit the mark.

WL's problem is the pet's sustained damage combined with an immense frontloaded burst from the WL that can be landed without any problems thanks to Pounce (which also deals great damage in itself and can, occasionally, be used as an escape tool aswell).

Suggestion 1: Move pounce to 13pts.

Suggestion 2: Greatly lower the damage of Brutal Pounce to reduce frontloaded burst.

Suggestion 3: Nerf the pet's damage.

I'd suggest to also nerf Force Opportunity armor debuff, to increase diversity in group comps. The same goes for Marauders. No skill should be 100% mandatory to make a group composition work.

[wachlarz]

Facts not fillings:
1. If CS still hit for 3k and some1 tell its not so hard, how much hp have averange squishy char ? 6k - 6,5k ? So from ONE skill U can destroy 50% of hp. Just nerf this skill if order dont wanna lose any of skills.

[roadkillrobin]

The class will be completly unplayeble in PVP at lower levels if CS is changed into specceble Mastery tree.

The problem is that the class is completly dependant on this skill aswell as Pounce to even function at all.

WL is a example of a class that is so horrible designed that it's unsalvageble with just tweaking what it allready got.

[Ori]

1. Fix Cleave LImb like the others MDD
2. Reduce the speed of the pet, because now it is higher than the player
3. Move Pounce to the 13 pt

[Liandel]

2. Reduce the speed of the pet, because now it is higher than the player

No it isn't. It's the same speed as a player. The only time a pet catches up to a player is if they are standing still, are already snared, or the WL player has slotted a tactic or used charge. The base pet speed is equal to a player, and pathing issues often result in it being even slower.