test guard

[Acidic]

I think keeping the type of damage though guard is a good thing. This equalizes out the effects of the different damage mitigation skills. Without this equaling out of benefit parry values should become more expensive than to reflect its benefit in 2h builds

[rmpl]

I think keeping the type of damage though guard is a good thing. This equalizes out the effects of the different damage mitigation skills. Without this equaling out of benefit parry values should become more expensive than to reflect its benefit in 2h builds

Have you considered the effect this would have on ORVR?

[Stickzy]

It's great people can talk about this for days over and over again. Will keep it short.

Just revert the guard changes, and dont try and ''fix'' anything there. my 2 cents.

[roadkillrobin]

Guard damage was always deflected by parry on live game. One of the reason tanks have WS as a secondary stat is coz it needed one universal stat to works deflect all guard damage.

Changing this will have a massive outcome on how the game plays out, especially large scale where tanks suddenly NEEDS all deflective stats to deflect guard damage as all kinda damage flings around in ORVR.
It also gonna create tank imballances as all tanks are ballanced in such a way thay Block+Parry works in tandem but the other avoidance is more of a class perk. Some tanks are able to get very high Disrupt while others can't at all. This is gonna create a ballance nightmare tbh.

[hogun]

it's pretty obvious from the beginning for those who are known as the mechanics of the game,

Yeah, not you.

Omg, you killing me guys I probably killed you a lot in Rvr so you'd be so angry with me, what's your name ig?

now let's be a little more serious and cool:)

why this asked questions about guard ? l because it is a source of absorption of phenomenal damage. whatever the situation, rvr, sc ect.
the fact that we can make them almost totally disappear quite easily with the parry ist important enough to talk about it.

[SmackdownNinja]

*Hold the line and jump*

To begin with, and to calm down everyone, we actual 2h guard change not gonna stay in its actual state.
Lot of passionate discussions around this radical test and finally some propositions here and there.

I never hid that I was not a theorycrafter, but these recent exchange point to me some details i didn't knew (and seems lot of ppl don't know too).

When it come to damages from guard, all damages are converted as melee damages. Which mean, even if a BW hit the guarded target, the damage from guard are converted on melee damages. This point heckle me.

Reading guard description of the ability, first line says :

"You defend one of your groupmates and try to take attacks meant for them". Implying, your body becomes his shield you try to intercept damages before he receive them, not "you remove part of damages when it is too late" .

Ofc it is just a description. From original client, and it doesn't mean it is supposed to work like this.

Some have tried to explore the client to try to understand how it was done. before reading further, some hardcore aprt are obviously parts are missing to confirm 100% the general idea, but according the understanding of abilities a guard should have been designed like this :
"When i hit X who is guarded by Y. X and Y take the same attack with 50%, but it will affect Y only if X takes damages."

Ofc, this is not what happening actually, and from some memories, this is not what happened on Live too, and i'm not gonna say the opposite.

Point is, i don't undestand the reasoning behind this sudden damage conversion when we talk about damage from guard, and i wonder what would happen if these attacks were prevserving their nature (basing my argument on description of the ability itself).

On a second point, does it mean that undefendable damages if they are divided (no idea haven't tested) are converted too ?

To summarize (tell me if i mistaken something, maybe forgot dodge here and there):


And if we were taking account of nature of the attack :



Now theory crafters, what would imply this change (admitting 50% guard is reverted)?

(As a reminder, stay cool. We are discussing)

You gotta take into consideration the whole aspect of the game when making massive changes. This would have a huge effect in RVR for tanks that have to run 2h or tanks that can’t boost up avoidance as well as other tanks can in RVR. BG for example, has to go 2h in rvr due to crimson death and wounds debuff. You already loose HTL and Block which not only makes you squishier, but also causes you to not be able to avoid guard damage as easily as a shield tank could.

Make SnB more interesting in small scale, and undo some nerfs that were done earlier to SnB tanks like Kotbs,Cho,BO and you will see SnB tanks come back to SCs. By doing that you accomplish what you wanted all along. You don’t have to worry about a balancing nightmare, and breaking core mechanics that have worked for over 10 years.

[Aurandilaz]

Last year, when it was proposed that WL become closer to Mara so that Order warbands can finally have a functioning melee frontline, you vetoed the plans because it was most likely too radical idea.
Now you want to redesign the whole Guard system without actually considering how massively it will change both 6v6 and largescale and most likely massively increase TTK in warband fights where tanks just go full defences with SNB triple HTLs and we get massive turtle formations... while in the other end, completely screwing any option for 2h tanks to be worth anything in endgame, resulting in them getting same treatment as DPS healers, meaning basically waste of space.
All these hundreds of forum posts, endless debates, could have been avoided if you hadn't chosen to start breaking something that was functioning fine, and destroying 2handers as tanks in the process.

yalishkah please....

[Tankbeardz]

it's pretty obvious from the beginning for those who are known as the mechanics of the game,

Yeah, not you.

Omg, you killing me guys I probably killed you a lot in Rvr so you'd be so angry with me, what's your name ig?

now let's be a little more serious and cool:)

the 6vs6 is only a very small part of the game, where you can see very beautiful things. but it remains a very small part of the game. the 6vsX in rvr, much less rare are much more interesting and require much more skill, and is not dominated by a single way of playing but by good players, but all this is only a matter of taste.

why this asked questions about guard ? l because it is a source of absorption of phenomenal damage. whatever the situation, rvr, sc ect.
the fact that we can make them almost totally disappear quite easily with the parade is a choice of game not necessarily shared by all.

What?

[Xergon]

Spoiler:

Helloooo

let's go beyond the fact that I'm the worst player in the galaxy and I don't understand anything about the mechanics of the game and let's look at this test together.

1 IB rr40, 2H with 20 pt of RR in parry basic equipment ( dont have the 5% bonus parade with the BL set but i could easy, good epic 2H)
1 IB rr85 s&b with 20 pt of RR in VERY high end equipment block (invader, subju, bl, bonus jewellery block all)

the objective is to see an equivalent number of attacks that better protect it from guard damage.for the same number of points of rr spent and with a clear advantage over the equipment for the RR85, but no matter.

video test 70% parade(max73%) ( not getstat , you can see the getsat in the video)

https://youtu.be/1iAN7FhueVU



video test 41% blocage+ 35 % (max 39%)parade ( not getstat , you can see the getstat in video)

https://youtu.be/I4yMlOjQ2E4



thank you for your feedback on this result which would show, unless I'm mistaken, that despite a better equipment for the same number of points of rr spent we protect it less well with an s&b from guard damage than with a 2H.

of course I could have spend 20 pt of RR on parry for s&b but the 2H will also be able to benefit in another way from this 20 pt. and the 2H could have WS talisman (more than 100 pts) and the BL bonus 5% parry ect... so let's keep in mind a close equivalence please.

remember all dommage guard can be parry : https://youtu.be/ESVWgxEjMcg

Very cool and interesting data BUT you missing one point. AoE Magic attacks that can hit both of you same time.
Do test for that, when both of you (Tank + Guarded Ally) stand in one place and you are getting hit by AoE Magical attacks, and show us how much damage/hits you will receive.

[Acidic]

I think keeping the type of damage though guard is a good thing. This equalizes out the effects of the different damage mitigation skills. Without this equaling out of benefit parry values should become more expensive than to reflect its benefit in 2h builds

Have you considered the effect this would have on ORVR?

Yes and it may well mean that tanks have to rethink resists and such fun things but I think also that casters should not have thier damage mitigated by a melee skill.
Have not the maths energy or patience to estimate if this would reintroduce BW/Soc taking over even more spots in open rvr, I’m sure hogan will do that for us