Toughness makes no difference in PVE?

[jaredb]

On at least 2 occasions I have been told that toughness makes no difference to Mitigation in PVE ( Gunbad)
Can I please have DEV confirm this.

Thanks in advance

[anarchypark]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29427

invest 280 and mitigate 25 dmg.
but it's against normal attacks.
against skills? haven't tested.

there are other priorities, can't make room for toughness invest.
so it's safe to say that almost no use.

but completely ignored in PvE?
makes no difference?
not true.

tanks can achieve 600 toughness without any invest.
that makes difference than dps with 200 tough.

[Akame]

It does make a small difference, but it is more or less the worst option.
It is far superior to stack armor in WAR PVE and renown in block or similar avoidance stat.

[Eathisword]

A bunch of dungeon boss/mob abilities are magic. Resist is abetter invest than toughness in PvE.

In order, 0% ctbc - block - armor - resist.
Then make sure you have enough wounds so you ca take a string of no block without dying. From Gunbad exp, 8000 health is plenty good.

I usually run pve with 500-600 toughness. I tried running 900, makes little difference. Barely noticeable.

[jaredb]

A bunch of dungeon boss/mob abilities are magic. Resist is abetter invest than toughness in PvE.

In order, 0% ctbc - block - armor - resist.
Then make sure you have enough wounds so you ca take a string of no block without dying. From Gunbad exp, 8000 health is plenty good.

I usually run pve with 500-600 toughness. I tried running 900, makes little difference. Barely noticeable.

Now I am confused,
If many attacks in PVE are magic then toughness should be a good stat (after resists ofc) and armor should not.

Why is mitigation different regarding toughness in pve vs pvp ?

[Ugle]

It boils down to the size of the damage you recieve. If you recieve 7k dmg in one hit, mitigating 400 dmg by toughness really dosent matter, hence it is better to spend your renown and talismans on other defences.

Armor (and resists) reduces a percentage of the damage, way more effective after not being hit at all and having your chance to be crit at well below 0.

Toughness isn't all useless, for example vs adds and other mobs, but for tanking wing bosses and the like, "no use at all".

[jaredb]

Can I confirm then that there is no maximum mitigation from from Armor in PVE (like was claimed in live) at 75% like in pvp

[Eathisword]

Now I am confused,
If many attacks in PVE are magic then toughness should be a good stat (after resists ofc) and armor should not.

Why is mitigation different regarding toughness in pve vs pvp ?

I don't know exactly how stuff is made in PvE.
But in general, the combat formula in WAR/RoR is written in a way so your toughness only counteract the strength or intel bonus of the attacker. It has no effect on base damage.

Suppose a choppa attacks you with a base damage of 300 to which is added another 200 from 900 strength bonus. Your 900 toughness would counterfeit that extra 200 damage and you'd receive 300 that would then be mitigated by armor versus armor penetration. So basically your toughness mitigated 40% of inc damage : pretty good.

Now suppose a mob attacks you for 8000, to which 200 is added from 900 strength. Your toughness still only counterfeit the 200 from strength and you take 8000 that is then mitigated by armor. So now, your toughness only mitigated 2.4% of the total damage : fairly shitty. So basically, by stacking toughness in PvE you are literally looking at + or - 100-200 damage per hit on totals that are over 8k per hit. Not useful to think about it.

As far as why armor over resist, its simple : all attacks that are not defined ability are physical. So most of the attacks are physical. Only the big AoE stuff or special Boss abilities are magic. But still the case remain, after armor, resist is better than toughness.

Edit : you sill still bonus from stacking armor over 5.5k. I have not tried higher and it is generally not useful anyway. Anything above 4,5k is plenty enough for the dungeons we have now.
And FYI, even in PvP you gain a lot from stacking armor way higher than 75%. Mitigation stops at 75%. But when you factor in armor debuffs and armor penetration, you need something like 8-9k armor to ''really'' mitigate 75%. Even at 6k armor (probably the max achievable now, while the paper doll 75% sits around 3300), you would on average mitigate only about 62% of the damage, taking in account 45% armor pen from mdps and average armor debuff of 1000.

[Ugle]

Now I am confused,
If many attacks in PVE are magic then toughness should be a good stat (after resists ofc) and armor should not.

Why is mitigation different regarding toughness in pve vs pvp ?

I don't know exactly how stuff is made in PvE.
But in general, the combat formula in WAR/RoR is written in a way so your toughness only counteract the strength or intel bonus of the attacker. It has no effect on base damage.

Iirc in ROR toughness was changed to a flat damage reduction, with a recent 75% cap from previous patch(?). Hence stacking toughness is more effective here than on live, even though it is still ineffective for pve

[Hargrim]

I will add that there are the same calculations done for PvE and PvP combat and all stats should behave in similar way.

Bosses with huge stat bonuses get relevent * power stat after reaching main stat soft cap.