Close Combat

[dansari]

rr80 means nothing except you like to play one class and you have the time, honestly.

Off topic: Choppa pull is an issue because it requires no setup (one of the most brainless abilities in game); it's randomized, so instead of pulling the closest 6 tanks and their guarded targets you pull an assortment of squishy or tank targets to you; you get a movespeed buff with it so you can use it either to enter engagements or leave them; it's much more reliable than every other pull in the game; your first target is pulled instantly, even before your animation triggering, so there is very little time to counter; and no other 13pt ability comes close to its efficiency so every Choppa has it. Possible solutions: pull only the closest targets towards you; pull them after a couple of seconds of ability animation; remove or even reverse the movespeed buff gained, which has the dual effect of ensuring you can't use it to leave engagements and so you at least have to think about when to use it; reducing your damage output by a % for 5s after use so you have to think about when to use it.

On topic: Guardian WL is an issue because of its tankiness and burst damage in small scale (less than 3 players per side) engagements. Solutions: reduce the damage of Leonine Frenzy and Coordinated Strike; build into the Stalker tactic a transfer of defenses to the lion pet, so that the lion pet still does high damage but it also has substantial defensive capabilities (copying parry, dodge, disrupt, wounds, toughness from the player to the pet, but halving those stats on player, for example). This should make it easier to kill the player, who's dealing little to no damage, while detaunting the pet.

[Fiskrens]

On topic: Guardian WL is an issue because of its tankiness and burst damage in small scale (less than 3 players per side) engagements. Solutions: reduce the damage of Leonine Frenzy and Coordinated Strike; build into the Stalker tactic a transfer of defenses to the lion pet, so that the lion pet still does high damage but it also has substantial defensive capabilities (copying parry, dodge, disrupt, wounds, toughness from the player to the pet, but halving those stats on player, for example). This should make it easier to kill the player, who's dealing little to no damage, while detaunting the pet.

Heh jokes on you I've already prepped by going loner spec (plz don't nerf me!)

[MedV]

rr80 means nothing except you like to play one class and you have the time, honestly.

Off topic: Choppa pull is an issue because it requires no setup (one of the most brainless abilities in game); it's randomized, so instead of pulling the closest 6 tanks and their guarded targets you pull an assortment of squishy or tank targets to you; you get a movespeed buff with it so you can use it either to enter engagements or leave them; it's much more reliable than every other pull in the game; your first target is pulled instantly, even before your animation triggering, so there is very little time to counter; and no other 13pt ability comes close to its efficiency so every Choppa has it. Possible solutions: pull only the closest targets towards you; pull them after a couple of seconds of ability animation; remove or even reverse the movespeed buff gained, which has the dual effect of ensuring you can't use it to leave engagements and so you at least have to think about when to use it; reducing your damage output by a % for 5s after use so you have to think about when to use it.

On topic: Guardian WL is an issue because of its tankiness and burst damage in small scale (less than 3 players per side) engagements. Solutions: reduce the damage of Leonine Frenzy and Coordinated Strike; build into the Stalker tactic a transfer of defenses to the lion pet, so that the lion pet still does high damage but it also has substantial defensive capabilities (copying parry, dodge, disrupt, wounds, toughness from the player to the pet, but halving those stats on player, for example). This should make it easier to kill the player, who's dealing little to no damage, while detaunting the pet.

I agree with every word you said. A main point I would like to bring up is how Orders Op classes vs destros work in ORVR. The choppa pull is extremely useful in wbs scs etc. The Wl as you said is only good in small engagements. The SH buff is great in WB for the melee destro train. Give destro a op 1v1 class and we will gladly take a melee pull and another 2 mdps that work in wbs (SH and Mara). Right now dps in wbs for destro are ( Sorc, Magus, SH, Mara and choppa ) while Order only has (Slayer, BW) . I think thats why you see 65 percent destro and 35 percent Order on right now as i type.

[dansari]

I agree with every word you said. A main point I would like to bring up is how Orders Op classes vs destros work in ORVR. The choppa pull is extremely useful in wbs scs etc. The Wl as you said is only good in small engagements. The SH buff is great in WB for the melee destro train. Give destro a op 1v1 class and we will gladly take a melee pull and another 2 mdps that work in wbs (SH and Mara). Right now dps in wbs for destro are ( Sorc, Magus, SH, Mara and choppa ) while Order only has (Slayer, BW) . I think thats why you see 65 percent destro and 35 percent Order on right now as i type.

I think your bias is showing. It's easy to put together pug destro b/c of plug and play melee squig, mara, choppa, sorc... sure. But don't try to cover up the strength of BW/SL in organized order wbs, where Order has some clear advantages (Wildfire, Rampage, R&D)

[MedV]

I agree with every word you said. A main point I would like to bring up is how Orders Op classes vs destros work in ORVR. The choppa pull is extremely useful in wbs scs etc. The Wl as you said is only good in small engagements. The SH buff is great in WB for the melee destro train. Give destro a op 1v1 class and we will gladly take a melee pull and another 2 mdps that work in wbs (SH and Mara). Right now dps in wbs for destro are ( Sorc, Magus, SH, Mara and choppa ) while Order only has (Slayer, BW) . I think thats why you see 65 percent destro and 35 percent Order on right now as i type.

I think your bias is showing. It's easy to put together pug destro b/c of plug and play melee squig, mara, choppa, sorc... sure. But don't try to cover up the strength of BW/SL in organized order wbs, where Order has some clear advantages (Wildfire, Rampage, R&D)

Yea I agree. Im semi bias. But this game is all about plug and play. Wbs mostly consist of Pick up play. yes sometimes organized wbs roam, but 90% its open wbs running the show numbers wise. In ROR I would say the side with the better random wb will win most of the time.

That said, I agree that if it was 100 v 100 and both sides had the cream of the crop on classes they wanted, order would have a good chance. But thats not how this game works. If you have 1 organized order wb and 1 pug. There will be 3-4 destro pugs which pug and play works better, and numbers always win.

[dansari]

That said, I agree that if it was 100 v 100 and both sides had the cream of the crop on classes they wanted, order would have a good chance. But thats not how this game works. If you have 1 organized order wb and 1 pug. There will be 3-4 destro pugs which pug and play works better, and numbers always win.

Well you can't class balance around aao.. you have to do some rvr mechanic things to try to smooth over one sided engagements.

[Fiskrens]

That said, I agree that if it was 100 v 100 and both sides had the cream of the crop on classes they wanted, order would have a good chance. But thats not how this game works. If you have 1 organized order wb and 1 pug. There will be 3-4 destro pugs which pug and play works better, and numbers always win.

100 vs 100 Destro would win 100 % of the time because
Magus > Engi
Sorc > BW
Chosen > Kotbs
BO > SM
Mara > WL... Yes I said it!
SH > SW

[Spacecraft]

Hopefully Aza plays WL himself and see its not a god mode class at all. Aginst any good group you will get some burst bit if target has heals or gaurd you just smokeng up your ap. And need to run and regroup.

[MedV]

That said, I agree that if it was 100 v 100 and both sides had the cream of the crop on classes they wanted, order would have a good chance. But thats not how this game works. If you have 1 organized order wb and 1 pug. There will be 3-4 destro pugs which pug and play works better, and numbers always win.

100 vs 100 Destro would win 100 % of the time because
Magus > Engi
Sorc > BW
Chosen > Kotbs
BO > SM
Mara > WL... Yes I said it!
SH > SW

I agree but I was just trying to not seem so bias. Lets wait to see the next patch. Im optimistic that destro will get some big nerfs and order will get a good amount of buffs.

[charlysixb]

This thread is awesome, top quality guys. Keep the good job commin'!