Tanks - how much armour is enough?

[roadkillrobin]

Armor is always vallueble due to armorpen+armor debuff. I think you need upwards of 200% before you start seeing some really negative vallues from it, ie you can pretty much never overdo it.

It's however a pretty shitty stat for a tank asuming you
have up lvl apropiate gear. All tanks are able to get were they need to be without armor talismans. Majority of damage you take is Guard dmg that you can only mitigate by up Block, Parry and Wounds. Toughness is pretty crappy against AoE attacks so if you wana be a well rounded tank it's gonna be Block-Parry-Wounds-Initiative for a decent comp groups imo.
It's always better with avoidance then trying to mitigate dmg as it get rid of debuffs and CC aswell.

[Dabbart]

Armor is worthless against all forms of Magical Damage.

Armor is worthless against morale damage.

Armor is worthless against Guard damage.

Armor is nearly worthless if you have a base 20% chance to be crit.

Armor is less worthy after a double(or triple for Order toons) debuff.(Ability, Tactic, and Morale all stack with each other)

Armor Pen is being more easily stackable via Gear.

WS is becoming the go-to stat for most Physical DPS in counterbalance to the theory of extreme armor stacking.

Avoidance changes.

For all of the above... I never stack armor. Especially on Tanks that already have a buttload of armor, and possess far superior methods of damage mitigation.

Having said all of that, I am of the opinion that you should stack the defence you find Kills you the most often. If you Die less with 6k armor, then do that. Just be sure to try out something else before you drop 1000's of gold or a dozen hours into farming 180+ armor talis... You'd be surprised how more survivable you can be with an extra 120 Ini or wounds...

[Ramasee]

To supplement dabbarts post, enemy has a combat log parser so you can see all the damage and from what abilities you have taken. Same for how often you were crit, and how often you avoided attacks.

[Tesq]

For exemple i stopped play mixed defense on my chosen exept for rvr slayer will dont give a **** anyway and 60% parry is enough for guard dmg mitigation.

Analyse your combat log, sometimea especially when chaging gear / upgrqding gear is worth some suicidal attack on enemy just to get those value

[DirkDaring]

hard to say , is armor important ? sure , however there are several classes that can bypass, or debuff your armor a lot , then you have morale abilities, magic damage, focusing on just one stat may be easy, but is counterproductive.

Best to shoot for 4500 armor, then get as close to 0 chance to be crit, as you can , while keeping initavite over 250 , and a good amount of toughness atleast 600 before toughness buff, and a minimum of 8K wounds, no real reason to go over 10K.

this comparison is old , and taken from live calculations, but is still somewhat relevant this deals with toughness vs wounds for healers, and tanks, and gives examples of amounts vs damage etc on each to determine a good guideline to shoot for .

as well as a breakdown of each defensive stats , and the forumals attributed to each, ie rank, vs stats x attacker level etc .

https://mrmeh.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/ ... -defenses/

[Wdova]

hard to say , is armor important ? sure , however there are several classes that can bypass, or debuff your armor a lot , then you have morale abilities, magic damage, focusing on just one stat may be easy, but is counterproductive.

Best to shoot for 4500 armor, then get as close to 0 chance to be crit, as you can , while keeping initavite over 250 , and a good amount of toughness atleast 600 before toughness buff, and a minimum of 8K wounds, no real reason to go over 10K.

this comparison is old , and taken from live calculations, but is still somewhat relevant this deals with toughness vs wounds for healers, and tanks, and gives examples of amounts vs damage etc on each to determine a good guideline to shoot for .

as well as a breakdown of each defensive stats , and the forumals attributed to each, ie rank, vs stats x attacker level etc .

https://mrmeh.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/ ... -defenses/

Everything has its cons and pros.

If You stack too much wounds, you force your party healer to focus on You more because You take more dmg and they spent more time to heal Your big HP pool. On other hand Your chance to survive morale pushes is higher.

If You stack for armor too much, You will be more vulnerable to armor ignoring attacks(Magic and positional bypass attacks)

If You stack everything in to toughnes, You gonna mitigate more incoming physical and magical dmg, but Your HP pool gonna be a bit low same as armor value.

I think the key is find perfect balance betwen defensive stats and keep Your chance to get crit as low as possible at same time.

Like Tesq written. 4000 armor unbuffed would be ok same as keeping your toughnes at 600 ish unbuffed while having 8k+ HP and chance to get crit less than 5%. Full avoidance of parry/dodge/disrubt seems like a must no matter if you 2H or SnB.

[Panodil]

At least very high armor is good against Lords in PvE .
Champs cap around 95% and heroes around 110%, if i remember correct since last time i tested, never found cap on lord.
But it feels like we are talking about pvp here.

[DirkDaring]

[/quote]

Everything has its cons and pros.

If You stack too much wounds, you force your party healer to focus on You more because You take more dmg and they spent more time to heal Your big HP pool. On other hand Your chance to survive morale pushes is higher.

If You stack for armor too much, You will be more vulnerable to armor ignoring attacks(Magic and positional bypass attacks)

If You stack everything in to toughnes, You gonna mitigate more incoming physical and magical dmg, but Your HP pool gonna be a bit low same as armor value.

I think the key is find perfect balance betwen defensive stats and keep Your chance to get crit as low as possible at same time.

Like Tesq written. 4000 armor unbuffed would be ok same as keeping your toughnes at 600 ish unbuffed while having 8k+ HP and chance to get crit less than 5%. Full avoidance of parry/dodge/disrubt seems like a must no matter if you 2H or SnB.
[/quote]

Thats what i said, i just included a link to a post made years ago showing the values attributed to each defensive stat, and the formulas for each, plus examples of whats better toughness vs wounds hehe

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

hard to say , is armor important ? sure , however there are several classes that can bypass, or debuff your armor a lot , then you have morale abilities, magic damage, focusing on just one stat may be easy, but is counterproductive.

Best to shoot for 4500 armor, then get as close to 0 chance to be crit, as you can , while keeping initavite over 250 , and a good amount of toughness atleast 600 before toughness buff, and a minimum of 8K wounds, no real reason to go over 10K.

this comparison is old , and taken from live calculations, but is still somewhat relevant this deals with toughness vs wounds for healers, and tanks, and gives examples of amounts vs damage etc on each to determine a good guideline to shoot for .

as well as a breakdown of each defensive stats , and the forumals attributed to each, ie rank, vs stats x attacker level etc .

https://mrmeh.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/ ... -defenses/

Everything has its cons and pros.

If You stack too much wounds, you force your party healer to focus on You more because You take more dmg and they spent more time to heal Your big HP pool. On other hand Your chance to survive morale pushes is higher.

If You stack for armor too much, You will be more vulnerable to armor ignoring attacks(Magic and positional bypass attacks)

If You stack everything in to toughnes, You gonna mitigate more incoming physical and magical dmg, but Your HP pool gonna be a bit low same as armor value.

I think the key is find perfect balance betwen defensive stats and keep Your chance to get crit as low as possible at same time.

Like Tesq written. 4000 armor unbuffed would be ok same as keeping your toughnes at 600 ish unbuffed while having 8k+ HP and chance to get crit less than 5%. Full avoidance of parry/dodge/disrubt seems like a must no matter if you 2H or SnB.

The first part about Wounds and healing isn't really correct. Toughness/Armor/Ressists essentially also just increase the amount of hits you can take before dying and so will wounds. However, If we're talking about keeping people topped on on healthbars you would be correct but the effiancy of the tank role doesn't mather if you're at 10% or 99% HP aslong as you're not dead. It all comes down to whats moast likly to kill you as a tank, guard dmg or someone actually attacking you and it's gonna be Guard dmg doing moast of the work on you.

[Koha]

I agree with a previous statement, analyse what kills you most and decide whether you lack resists or need to change your behavior or build. Guard damage is not mitigated by armor but you take aoe damage as well.

Still they are some milestones :
- armor mitigation is capped to 75% mitigation which is 3300 armor without armor pen or debuff.
- most physical dps have around 700 WS = 50 % pen
= 6600 armor will grant you the maximal 75% mitigation VS armorpen
If enemy dps start to waste armor debuff on you... well your tank job is half done or you’re the last standing.

NB : Lion pet have armor pen that I fail to understand. And you’ll not mitigate a lot damage from them. Still a lion on a tank might be wasted damage, so good for you.