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Blackguard Builds

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#221 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:35 pm

@tesq why so aggressiv? But you are right i put the numvers a bit wrong i have to admit but you just need to hit 623 toughness in pre buff build cause you have a second toughness buff as skill if you wanna go in detail(;
@peterthepan and darosh thank you both i share your views (:
I would recommend what peter wrote about gameplay and build ill do near the same just dont go for crit in rr cause my rr is to low yet ):

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#222 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:43 pm

mubbl wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:35 pm @tesq why so aggressiv? But you are right i put the numvers a bit wrong i have to admit but you just need to hit 623 toughness in pre buff build cause you have a second toughness buff as skill if you wanna go in detail(;
@peterthepan and darosh thank you both i share your views (:
I would recommend what peter wrote about gameplay and build ill do near the same just dont go for crit in rr cause my rr is to low yet ):
because ppl feel like thinking bg is grasnted everything for free, while is quite the total opposite and your post felt like inconsistent bias tough maybe i red it badly.

yes have the self buff but you need to buff yourself with if you dont have a chosen that toughness buff, plus that can be shattered; it is not soemthing you have up 100% of the time aswell as the 45% increase which is hate based and and require to hit and of course on top fo requiring a lot of GCD which if miss the target for self buff requrie mreo GCD. The BG is the most inconsistent tanks; all his tools are:

-active
-requrie to land to self buff
-play 2h is even a way to make easieer land those buff/debuff (10% block striketrought from greatweapon and, thanks god, order tanks are blok based so you at lest just focus on bypass block for self buffing/debuff frontline)) so BG if basically forced to play 2h for most of his time because debuff mean = hit and recent changes just made this harder durability wise. Especially since all other tanks (5/&) are not forced to go 2h in orvr to be usefull.

sure if you play in sc who cares ....those changes were meaningless for off BG which get even more wep skill from offensive gear....and would had left home anyway the tactic....you had no reason for it in first place.....because you didnt have the slot for it if you go malice and off...now def orvr 2h bg are left starving and unable to do anything...

why all this talk? this is to say that BG sich is more complicated than other tanks..... build a 2h kobs is basically the eopposite....and some ppl are missrappresenting this since they not play all the game content of the game...or the class..
Last edited by Tesq on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#223 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 pm

ADM was always used for Malice BG in SC and 6v6...dunno which offensive BGs weren't using it when it was low-hanging fruit. Why would you give up 30% parry for a heal debuff that Choppa/WE can apply, lol.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#224 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 pm ADM was always used for Malice BG in SC and 6v6...dunno which offensive BGs weren't using it when it was low-hanging fruit. Why would you give up 30% parry for a heal debuff that Choppa/WE can apply, lol.
because for sc you dont need 70% parry and bg can reach 50% if spec offensive gear, you dont need more, you will be hit most of tiems behind ya in sc and you can use tactics slot for off stuff. But ORVR is a diff story.
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peterthepan3
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Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#225 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:59 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 pm ADM was always used for Malice BG in SC and 6v6...dunno which offensive BGs weren't using it when it was low-hanging fruit. Why would you give up 30% parry for a heal debuff that Choppa/WE can apply, lol.
because for sc you dont need 70% parry and bg can reach 50% if spec offensive gear, you dont need more, you will be hit most of tiems behind ya in sc and you can use tactics slot for off stuff. But ORVR is a diff story.
A flat 30% parry, while being able to purchase everything from Malice? You would have had to be insane not to pick that - thus allowing you to spec talis/rr more into crit and offense. I don't know why you don't think the more parry, the better. Versus pugs? Sure, go focused offence and anti-detaunt - anything works against that. I am referring to playing a Malice BG against other groups: ADM was considered mandatory to survive guard damage versus double melee (aka every order 6man) groups.

Again - being able to maintain such high levels of parry, provide an aoe snare and dish out a lot of damage simultaneously, was what brought about the repositioning of ADM. I am not saying I don't empathise with you somewhat in regards to how other tanks have it, but that doesn't negate from the fact that no class should be able to have all of their eggs in one basket.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#226 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:08 pm

not saying all had been fine, i agree on aoe snare being put back there, but there were other way to deal with parry, imo parry was skipable especially in group comp, when you have parry enough you can spec other stuff.

If the probs were melee trains due alredy have 50% parry and bring an auto attack debuff + elite training, you where alredy def enough to del with it imo, Malice bg out by just loosing aoe snare.

RoR.builders - Black Guard

which is fine...but 2h def bg lost is meaning for rvr with parry tactic being cutted out/being so hight.
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Darosh
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Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#227 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 pm ADM was always used for Malice BG in SC and 6v6...dunno which offensive BGs weren't using it when it was low-hanging fruit. Why would you give up 30% parry for a heal debuff that Choppa/WE can apply, lol.
because for sc you dont need 70% parry and bg can reach 50% if spec offensive gear, you dont need more, you will be hit most of tiems behind ya in sc and you can use tactics slot for off stuff. But ORVR is a diff story.
How does 70% parry stack fare against NS/DDB**? Yes, I know, you'll only see competent SL/CH every once in a bajillion blue moon cycles, but still...

Abbd.: Numbing Strike/Drop Da Basha. I.e.: Better than <=50%, and especially on a offensive 2h BG that is facing Rampage. It's about opportunity, either mechanicially or statistically (e.g.: investments like Peter suggested.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#228 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 pm
Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 pm ADM was always used for Malice BG in SC and 6v6...dunno which offensive BGs weren't using it when it was low-hanging fruit. Why would you give up 30% parry for a heal debuff that Choppa/WE can apply, lol.
because for sc you dont need 70% parry and bg can reach 50% if spec offensive gear, you dont need more, you will be hit most of tiems behind ya in sc and you can use tactics slot for off stuff. But ORVR is a diff story.
How does 70% parry stack fare against NS/DDB**? Yes, I know, you'll only see competent SL/CH every once in a bajillion blue moon cycles, but still...

Abbd.: Numbing Strike/Drop Da Basha.
in fact thats the reason you dont need parry more than 50% in sc or 40% if s+b with renown into block, you gona be KD then focussed behind and thats the term to kill ya in sc (so theyw ill get around your parry wall anyway) if few/no heals so you just dont need it...i dropped mixed defense on my chosen for that too in sc and got off tactic instead and redirect aswell some avoidance since slayer rampage banana into raw mitigation and it work just better...same thing for bg as they are both conqueror and spac def similar way. whatever the spec avoidance in sc for tanks is less important after certain points, aka 50% parry, 30% dodge/disrupt. By goign dominator is just even more wep skill and str/crit. which make all even easier. And oh well taunt dominator OP proc dmg multipler on a class which can reach insane level of armor pen.
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Darosh
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Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#229 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:55 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 pm
Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm

because for sc you dont need 70% parry and bg can reach 50% if spec offensive gear, you dont need more, you will be hit most of tiems behind ya in sc and you can use tactics slot for off stuff. But ORVR is a diff story.
How does 70% parry stack fare against NS/DDB**? Yes, I know, you'll only see competent SL/CH every once in a bajillion blue moon cycles, but still...

Abbd.: Numbing Strike/Drop Da Basha.
in fact thats the reason you dont need parry more than 50% in sc or 40% if s+b with renown into block, you gona be KD then focussed behind and thats the term to kill ya in sc if few/no heals so you just dont need it...i dropped mixed defense on my chosen for that in sc and got off tactic instead and redirect aswell some avoidance since slayer rampage banana into raw mitigation and it work just better...same thing for bg as they are both conqueror and spac def similar way. whatever the spec avoidance in sc for tanks is less important after certain points.
Why would one use NS/DDB to assist on a tank? The burst you apply on his guardee and the guarddamage you generate has the potential to get him 'deleted' alongside his guardee (especially if the guardee is a debuffed, in red kd'd and assisted on [glass] Slayer or Choppa).

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#230 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:55 pm
Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 pm

How does 70% parry stack fare against NS/DDB**? Yes, I know, you'll only see competent SL/CH every once in a bajillion blue moon cycles, but still...

Abbd.: Numbing Strike/Drop Da Basha.
in fact thats the reason you dont need parry more than 50% in sc or 40% if s+b with renown into block, you gona be KD then focussed behind and thats the term to kill ya in sc if few/no heals so you just dont need it...i dropped mixed defense on my chosen for that in sc and got off tactic instead and redirect aswell some avoidance since slayer rampage banana into raw mitigation and it work just better...same thing for bg as they are both conqueror and spac def similar way. whatever the spec avoidance in sc for tanks is less important after certain points.
Why would one use NS/DDB to assist on a tank? The burst you apply on his guardee and the guarddamage you generate has the potential to get him 'deleted' alongside his guardee (especially if the guardee is a debuffed, in red kd'd and assisted on [glass] Slayer or Choppa).
remotely is possible but still..

exatòy why anyone would assist on a tank? so why you spec 70% parry in sc?; 50% is enogh for guard mitigation...well better say 40% from the melee and 50% from the tank...BG bubble, elite training...

why even waste parry tactic in sc..you wont need it , you wont be under prolonged or multiple focus on yourself...especially if in premade settings...pug sc is a different story but with a premade you wont need it.
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