question about debolster gear

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

I did exactly that with the debolster, because it seems like many people get bored and/or burned out before then even hit r40. They get tired of mindless pug surfing or being constantly steamrolled by a larger enemy pug; there's no one giving out advice on how to play their character to the fullest in every situation, so they have learn in the fire themselves; they don't have a chance to play alongside more experienced veterans, so they get used to poor healing, no guards/challenges, and become very defeatist when see they have to take down a guarded target; and they have no concept of proper group/warband play, which means they have to learn it in T4 against opposing groups who've been running together for years.

That's the big issue, if the start is mediocre and what follows it is straight up horrible... people aren't really willing to put up with it.
If you get new players to fall in love with the game in T1 by giving them an opportunity to experience the beauty that is WAR's group dependencies and such you'll have a healthy (= in terms of numbers and expectations/sentiment) influx of people longterm.

Learning the difference of 'good' and 'bad' gameplay basically makes or breaks players; if they get used to unreliable tanks, healers and dps, they'll just moan and bitch about, say: pug sc matchmaking, gear, class and realm 'balance' issues ~ before ever remotely getting in touch with actual issues.
If your first few hours are defined by reliable group members, the first thing you'll do going forwards is to try and emulate the experience, if the opposite is the case (e.g.: blobbing, where your input simply does not matter and everything can be excused with 'numbers'; scenarios, where by default everything is being excused with 'matchmaking' [= the genesis of bad habits]) you'll just become lethargic and play like **** (no one there to tell you how to get better; no criticism, no feedback, no advice and ultimately no attention or interest; 'It worked there and then' / 'Everyone is bad but me')... perpetuating the cycle of misery (i.e.: bad/unrealistic expectations [1vX, bruh] = bad play = no invites = getting farmed = burnout = bad play = rinse and repeat, add some threads on the forums and spam in the public channels).

Surely you could just reroll chars endlessly to pick up people, but I for one simply do not have the patience to reroll a thousand times a month and slog along with an even more limited toolkit for the majority of my time (= less opportunity to 'show off') in T1 just to have an opportunity to prop up new players and hand them their first fix.
If I, however, could stroll through T1 with my sexy midget, I'd gladly spend some of the few hours I have per week to pickup new healbots, dpsbots and maybe get more people to opt for midgets ~ spreading dwarf propaganda is paramount afterall.

TLDR:
New players without guidance in T1 learn three things:
1. Join pug warband.
2. Pray to RNGesus.
3. Blame numbers and classes for hardship.
Because, unless they run into fully twinked alts played by vets, every class can be dealt with due to limited toolkits and lacking experience of those behind the steering wheel (= something that, the very moment grouping comes into the picture ~ by extension the rest of the toolits ~ changes drastically).

Take SL/CH as an example, how many players burnout throughout their journey to r40/+40 and shortly afterwards because they have no opportunity yet (in T1) to grasp the very limitations and dependencies of these classes or develop terrible habbits/expectations because of RNG fueled encounters?

[Sedok]

That's the big issue, if the start is mediocre and what follows it is straight up horrible... people aren't really willing to put up with it.

If you get new players to fall in love with the game in T1 by giving them an opportunity to experience the beauty that is WAR's group dependencies and such you'll have a healthy (= in terms of numbers and expectations/sentiment) influx of people longterm.

Aye, first impressions matter, and I think for WAR they aren't just important, but crucial to drawing in and retaining people for the long-term. The issue then becomes how to ensure player's are getting a great first impression, and the only answer is that its up to the individual players to take the initiative to form groups, challenge "zergs", and keep the social connections going. However, that type of person seems to be becoming increasingly rare, not just in MMOs, but in online gaming in general. I enjoy jumping into the lakes solo as a healer and helping whomever I come across, its great way to stay sharp and meet other players, but it seems like so few people try new things like that; they just look to see if an open warband is up, and if they don't see one they log off saying "<Opposing faction>'s zerg is out in force tonight. Pointless to fight."

If your first few hours are defined by reliable group members, the first thing you'll do going forwards is to try and emulate the experience, if the opposite is the case (e.g.: blobbing, where your input simply does not matter and everything can be excused with 'numbers'; scenarios, where by default everything is being excused with 'matchmaking' [= the genesis of bad habits]) you'll just become lethargic and play like **** (no one there to tell you how to get better; no criticism, no feedback, no advice and ultimately no attention or interest; 'It worked there and then' / 'Everyone is bad but me')... perpetuating the cycle of misery (i.e.: bad/unrealistic expectations [1vX, bruh] = bad play = no invites = getting farmed = burnout = bad play = rinse and repeat, add some threads on the forums and spam in the public channels).

Exactly, 100%. And it really is a self-perpetuating cycle; I've had a dozen or so instances where I'm leveling or helping folks in T1 and send out a message about forming a "premade/roaming group" etc., and I'll have people try to mock and shame me for doing so. The cycle of misery becomes so implanted in some people, that they begin actively fighting against others trying to improve, to hold them down so that they do not have put in the effort to get better also. Even more people will whine in general about players using guard or potions in T1 or running with any kind of group (No 1v1 brah?! Loooooser).

Surely you could just reroll chars endlessly to pick up people, but I for one simply do not have the patience to reroll a thousand times a month and slog along with an even more limited toolkit for the majority of my time (= less opportunity to 'show off') in T1 just to have an opportunity to prop up new players and hand them their first fix.

I don't mind the limited toolkit, I enjoy seeing how much I can push the class to its limits and see what its truly capable of at each rank (and you realize how little potential the average player gets out of their class). Like you, I just don't enjoy constantly re-rolling characters, which is what made debolster a great option. Its actually kinda cool to see people have their first great experience of WAR, it can be an infectious joy. I can't even count the number of times I've seen a Slayer say he's not enjoying the class because dies so much, then only an hour later, he's singing its praises because 30-kill streaks with a pocket healer/guard.

[Ainu]

Debolstering into T1 would need quite a bit of work, and the value behind it works against what we're trying to encourage. Taking players out of the big RvR game that is R16+ seems counterintuitive. Having people that enjoy T1 constantly rerolling and making groups to get their gear works just fine. If people that enjoy T1 stop rerolling and just play it out in infinite debolster gear, well, that kind of takes away from the grouping aspect that new players to the game need to feel like there's a healthy game dynamic going on here.

I agree with this logic in common, but could you please return some rewards for rank 16+ players in T1? Of course no renown and medallions, but can we get influence and kills at least? I missed most T1 content during progress of main character. Please give me the possibility to maximize my influence. I'm just perfectionist. Also I want to have chicken achievements, which required to count kills in T1. And simply, chicken wars is funny feature. Hope you agree with me.

[RuffRyder]

Please give me the possibility to maximize my influence. I'm just perfectionist. Also I want to have chicken achievements, which required to count kills in T1. And simply, chicken wars is funny feature. Hope you agree with me.

Same thing in another thread.

"When you start RvR from level 1, it is not that hard to max out your influence. In my experience, without much AAO it is possible around level 11-13 maybe, unless you keep sitting on BOs that give you too much XP. Keep roaming solo or with a small group, sometimes in T1 there are no big WBs because of more than one open zone. Choose the one with more enemies and less players on your side."

It's like 6-10 hours of playtime in T1 until you hit 16, with much AAO even less, and you can do PvE everytime after that, too.

[szejoza]

It's like 6-10 hours of playtime in T1 until you hit 16, with much AAO even less, and you can do PvE everytime after that, too.

That is true, but as in my case many of the things were not implemented when I started playing on the server when T1 was only open (hunter set for example) and now I can't finish the quest as my char is far away in T4
It doesn't affect anything though, only collectioners suffer

[RuffRyder]

Spoiler:

It's like 6-10 hours of playtime in T1 until you hit 16, with much AAO even less, and you can do PvE everytime after that, too.

That is true, but as in my case many of the things were not implemented when I started playing on the server when T1 was only open (hunter set for example) and now I can't finish the quest as my char is far away in T4
It doesn't affect anything though, only collectioners suffer

True, too and sad in your case, when I started on live in 2008 I kept doing PvE with friends and tried to max out any chapter etc., but after years it's not that interesting anymore, so I do PvE only for epics or crafting, or PQs with new gear like Gunbad.

[Ainu]

"When you start RvR from level 1, it is not that hard to max out your influence. In my experience, without much AAO it is possible around level 11-13 maybe, unless you keep sitting on BOs that give you too much XP. Keep roaming solo or with a small group, sometimes in T1 there are no big WBs because of more than one open zone. Choose the one with more enemies and less players on your side."

It's like 6-10 hours of playtime in T1 until you hit 16, with much AAO even less, and you can do PvE everytime after that, too.

You are talking about new players. I'm talking about characters who left T1 long ago. I see no problems if 40's could get influence in T1.

And I want to hear dev's position, if possible.