SW vs Engi

[HolySpartan]

Can someone give me a rundown on these two in the current state of the game? The differences between the two, playstyles, etc.

[dansari]

Engy is either a strong, albeit stationary single target damage source, a somewhat mobile AOE damage source, or a mobile utility source via magnet. It is probably the hardest order DPS class to play well outside of keep defenses/takes. It can be very fun if you have a strong bomb warband. Caveat: mine is exclusively used for farming because I can't get the playstyle down.

SW is a strong single target melee burst class or a solid sustained damage, mobile ranged class. It is somewhat difficult to play but is also pretty forgiving since you have a self punt.

It depends on what you want to be. If you want a solid class that allows you to play solo and be one of the top order DPS (BW,SL,SW), then play a SW. If you want to be a support DPS class (at least until high RR) with the best farming ability, play an engy.

[Sedok]

Shadow Warrior has always been consistently strong. It is extremely mobile while sacrificing little damage potential, which allows it to be the most effective dps in your average warband engagement. It's got good AoE, a spammable heal-debuff, a 4-sec knock-down, group critical hit buff, and the ability to deal with a focus fire multiple ways. Overall, its a low skill floor/low skill ceiling class, as its your standard rdps kiter archetype and the self-punt allows quite a bit of forgiveness for mistakes.

Engineer is at its strongest at the moment, with the changes to Bombardment Turret really amping Grenadier dps, but its an unforgiving spec to play outside of a siege. Your average warband encounter in the lakes is fought over a 500ft (in-game) area, so if if you do not place and/or redeploy your turret effectively during them, your damage really suffers. You can still be effective at supporting a AoE BW with Resist debuffs and AoE padding, but you won't be bringing the boom without maximum IU. Rifleman is a very solid spec, always has been, and it is great fun to play in sieges, in a gunline, or in scout-sniper groups. Its damage output allows you to ambush targets very effectively, to the point where you can take down two opponents before they come down on you. If played with friends in scout-sniper pairs, you will have loads of fun.

[Manatikik]

Would listen to Dan over Sedok because only 2 things Sedok said about SW are true...

To add on to Dan: unless you're relatively well geared on SW neither of these classes will be a primary DPS role but a secondary DPS to a group that brings more utility than damage. Both are fun and good in a lot of situations. For your first class is probably go Engi due to: more effective at lower levels = more fun earlier; better at farming for gold/mats to get you relevant with pots/talis and gear faster; much faster and easier to level; and even if you don't end up loving it at 40 it's still useful to you later down the road as a secondary toon.

[catholicism198]

They're actually both right- to a degree- about different things.
The main difference comes down to (warband) Utility (ae stagger, pull, disorient, snare) vs. Mobility.
I don't recommend doing what Mana is suggesting though. Just play both until 16- it's pretty fast and you'll get to see which play-style you prefer.

[Sedok]

Would listen to Dan over Sedok because only 2 things Sedok said about SW are true...

What did I say that wasn't true?

[Manatikik]

Would listen to Dan over Sedok because only 2 things Sedok said about SW are true...

What did I say that wasn't true?

OK

Shadow Warrior has always been consistently strong. It is extremely mobile while sacrificing little damage potential, which allows it to be the most effective dps in your average warband engagement.

No idea what you consider most effective but it must ignore BWs and Slayers as they are both the kings of AoE on Order and SW in WB are simply LS and HD bots OR PD proc bots for Slayers.

It's got good AoE, a

This would be true if the ES + UF changes weren't made. But currently all they have is one core AoE move that is not as good as multiple other Order classes (most importantly BW and Slayer).

spammable heal-debuff,

Your first truth!

a 4-sec knock-down,

I don't know if you're referring to Exploit Weakness or Eye Shot but both are only 3 seconds...

group critical hit buff,

Your second truth!

and the ability to deal with a focus fire multiple ways.

They are actually terrible at dealing with pressure. And Only tool they have is a single target detaunt (which every DPS and Healer has access too if not better AoE detaunts) and WP if you count being caught out due to bad positioning as focus fire...

Overall, its a low skill floor/low skill ceiling class, as its your standard rdps kiter archetype and the self-punt allows quite a bit of forgiveness for mistakes.

This part is the most subjective but I do agree they have lower skill floor (in regards to being a Heal Debuff, RKD, and LS bot but not a real damage dealer) but to actually be good they have a decent skill ceiling (not the highest in the game but definitely not one of the lowest) which is why there is only a handful of actually good and effective SW's.

They're actually both right- to a degree- about different things.
The main difference comes down to (warband) Utility (ae stagger, pull, disorient, snare) vs. Mobility.
I don't recommend doing what Mana is suggesting though. Just play both until 16- it's pretty fast and you'll get to see which play-style you prefer.

Oh for sure play them both in T1 and if one really stands out pick it, but in the long run the long slow grind to 40 is a lot more fun on an Engi zerg-surfing with AoE and burning rested XP quickly as opposed to being useless until like 30 and then only having a RKD and slow pve farm with a SW.

[dansari]

Not to circle jerk, but fen has a point: engy is probably better as a first class simply because you can start to accumulate wealth to supplement your other chars. My opinion: SW is better in group settings though, so if you have friends SW will be more useful.

[Darosh]

Dwarf master race ~ go engi and find yourself a pocket IB, you'll be set for 9/10 activities; grind, roam, pug scs duo'ing, large scale zerg ride, yadayada.

Just for the sake of grinding and establishing a pot supply line an engi is well worth picking up. Rather get the nasty stuff out of the way from the get go even if you don't fancy the class that much, having a go-to farmbot helps you setup w/e class you are rolling afterwards.

[Sedok]

This part is the most subjective but I do agree they have lower skill floor (in regards to being a Heal Debuff, RKD, and LS bot but not a real damage dealer) but to actually be good they have a decent skill ceiling (not the highest in the game but definitely not one of the lowest) which is why there is only a handful of actually good and effective SW's.

Obviously, there is no exact criteria to judge by what exactly "low" is for a skill ceiling, but I'd argue that the self-punt significantly lowers it. SW's may not have an AoE detaunt, but -50% damage is still an inferior defense mechanism, than simply removing oneself from the damage altogether.

I stand corrected on your other points. I should have been more specific with some language I used as to better clarify my points, but either way my description wasn't as accurate as it should have been. Thank you for the corrections.