How come order is so bad ?

[Darosh]

Only reason I roll them is because the best block rating shield is behind that 1130 emblem pay wall. Which means its a pugger's life for me until pop rates for grps are faster, but that is more of a problem stemming from the lack of playtime I have than anything the devs should do.

Get youself a pocket-dps or healer, you should be able to carry pug SCs just fine. Got the shield within a week of brainafk play with various pocket-dps on my IB, the day after... Lord RNGesus gifted me the Subjugator one just out of spite.

The Subjugator one has a tiny edge over the SC one (the proc on it is surprisingly potent, the difference in blockrating/stats is negible), so I don't get to use the scenario one much... HAIL RNGesus!

[Collateral]

I am in Diogenes.

You have gotten overly defensive, made wide-eyed assumptions and I find it fascinating from a pyschological petspective.

Then if you're in a guild why all this crap about pugging and 'playing just for fun', insinuating destro doesn't do that somehow? I'm pretty sure both sides have equal amount of casual players, and that people actually play the game for fun, believe it or not It's a stupid thing you said is all I'm saying. In other threads you want people to post evidence, yet here you show no evidence that 'order has more casual players that just play for the hell of it'. Or is BT compared to TUP the evidence here?

Anyway to conclude; order is bad, they are only casuals, destro is op with op morales and op players.

I look at the bigger picture, there is nothing wrong with organised, mini-maxed WB's like TUP and nothing wrong with Bitterstone's "get every Dwarf we can and get stuck in"

you are the one that got offended by an inference that was not there

I got mildly triggered, as you do today, not offended. Are you sure there was no inference? And are you sure you're looking at the bigger picture? Cuz it doesn't look like that from the quote I replied to. I also have no problems with people playing the game how they want, but people talking bull is another thing.

[lefze]

Then if you're in a guild why all this crap about pugging and 'playing just for fun', insinuating destro doesn't do that somehow? I'm pretty sure both sides have equal amount of casual players, and that people actually play the game for fun, believe it or not It's a stupid thing you said is all I'm saying. In other threads you want people to post evidence, yet here you show no evidence that 'order has more casual players that just play for the hell of it'. Or is BT compared to TUP the evidence here?

Anyway to conclude; order is bad, they are only casuals, destro is op with op morales and op players.

I look at the bigger picture, there is nothing wrong with organised, mini-maxed WB's like TUP and nothing wrong with Bitterstone's "get every Dwarf we can and get stuck in"

you are the one that got offended by an inference that was not there

I got mildly triggered, as you do today, not offended. Are you sure there was no inference? And are you sure you're looking at the bigger picture? Cuz it doesn't look like that from the quote I replied to. I also have no problems with people playing the game how they want, but people talking bull is another thing.

Might aswell just stop arguing, and end this on the note that he is in Diogenes. Really don't need any other fact or info to show there's no point in continuing.

[Fallenkezef]

Then if you're in a guild why all this crap about pugging and 'playing just for fun', insinuating destro doesn't do that somehow? I'm pretty sure both sides have equal amount of casual players, and that people actually play the game for fun, believe it or not It's a stupid thing you said is all I'm saying. In other threads you want people to post evidence, yet here you show no evidence that 'order has more casual players that just play for the hell of it'. Or is BT compared to TUP the evidence here?

Anyway to conclude; order is bad, they are only casuals, destro is op with op morales and op players.

I look at the bigger picture, there is nothing wrong with organised, mini-maxed WB's like TUP and nothing wrong with Bitterstone's "get every Dwarf we can and get stuck in"

you are the one that got offended by an inference that was not there

I got mildly triggered, as you do today, not offended. Are you sure there was no inference? And are you sure you're looking at the bigger picture? Cuz it doesn't look like that from the quote I replied to. I also have no problems with people playing the game how they want, but people talking bull is another thing.

In my experience, more people play for los on order and more people take it seriously on dessie.

How is this a triggering statement? This does lead to order losing more often, again in my experience, however most order dont complain as they understand guild groups like TUP are better just allot of order prefer other approaches.

Also, in my experience, before I deleted most of my dessie toons it was very easy to pug when TUP was on abd ride thier coat tails to victory. You cant do that on order.

Nothing negative on TUP, just on dessie you can get more for less effort when they are running.

[Fallenkezef]

I look at the bigger picture, there is nothing wrong with organised, mini-maxed WB's like TUP and nothing wrong with Bitterstone's "get every Dwarf we can and get stuck in"

you are the one that got offended by an inference that was not there

I got mildly triggered, as you do today, not offended. Are you sure there was no inference? And are you sure you're looking at the bigger picture? Cuz it doesn't look like that from the quote I replied to. I also have no problems with people playing the game how they want, but people talking bull is another thing.

Might aswell just stop arguing, and end this on the note that he is in Diogenes. Really don't need any other fact or info to show there's no point in continuing.

You have an issue with the guild?

[Aethilmar]

Even as a die-hard member of Order I must admit I find the powers of Chaos to be extremely impressive to somehow use necromancy to pull this thread across time and space from the now defunct original forums (circa 2009 ... and 2010 ... and 2011 ... and ...) and into the RoR forums.

[Darosh]

Even as a die-hard member of Order I must admit I find the powers of Chaos to be extremely impressive to somehow use necromancy to pull this thread across time and space from the now defunct original forums (circa 2009 ... and 2010 ... and 2011 ... and ...) and into the RoR forums.

Tzeentch, matey, he got ya covered. 10/10 bird shenanigans, he is in it to win it ~ the majestic long con.

[dansari]

All of this talk about min/maxing guild wbs.. you don't even have to get that far into it. You just have to have competent players in well setup groups. If you have two mdps in a group with one tank, you're at a disadvantage. If you have 7 healers as opposed to 8, you're at a disadvantage. Then you can talk about how, for order at least, you have to have the right DPS to be effective. It's really sad but a lot of classes just don't fit into "the best" warband setups. SM is pretty bad for mass scale.. so is WL.. and so is SW unless you want one for Pierce Defenses (which only benefits your SL) or for init debuff. Other than that it's pretty much: pull engy, SL, BW. Destro certainly has more variety in the DPS classes they can bring, but that's about it.

Edit: but therein lies the problem. Order is full of DPS classes that are B-tier or C-tier for warband, and definitely not enough tanks to have a front unless you are playing with competent people who will switch to fill the needs of the wb.

[bloodi]

So order has 3 classes that are great at ORvR meta and one of them, the AM, is just there to pump up the other 2 classes with his single target heal.

But somehow, this is inconsequential, all destruction tanks are great at it but that is not an issue, they are infinitely more flexibile in their setups but that doesnt matter and them having the best morale game by far is just irrelevant.

Is just, order players, somehow, they are all bad and if you dont agree with that, we will call you names.

[Britainnicus]

Even as a die-hard member of Order I must admit I find the powers of Chaos to be extremely impressive to somehow use necromancy to pull this thread across time and space from the now defunct original forums (circa 2009 ... and 2010 ... and 2011 ... and ...) and into the RoR forums.

There is a reason for that: the same issues still exist. I find it intriguing that people forget that the original devs and MJ himself admitted in both the official forums and VN boards that they messed up when speculating population balances and that Destro was given a toolset with the expectation they would be the underdog. The logic that through both live and ror that the available gaming population gravitated to Destro simply by chance is laughable. So is the theory that with such a closed population that the l33t players are only on Destro. I find it particularly interesting that when people come over from Destro to Order they always talk about how Order is more organized, despite the many suggestions otherwise here. While there are some legitimate self-induced reasons why order struggles (loss of regular wb leaders during EU primetime, wbs that see helping the realm as periphery, lack of desire to form organized groups) there are population and balance issues that feed these bad habits. Until that is addressed, things won't change.