To all PUG leaders out there

[xtc1999]

Check your pug privilege

[peterthepan3]

You'll never stop casual players being casual. The drop in/drop out element of pugs is one of the main attractions for me, was in live.

Thing is a great many feel that way so you'll always get the lolpugs. Thing is many start there and learn, often the hard way, through it.

Hell if I find people kicking from open pugs like the op suggests I'd start a lolpug just to give those players a chance to get together. Only people I'd kick would be the afks

Sometimes people need to be kicked out of a WB for them to realise any wrongdoings on their behalf: leeching, doing nothing, constantly falling behind, constantly questioning the leader, etc - all of these things warrant kicks, imo.

[rmpl]

I think Ocara actually does closed pug warbands and they are pretty effective for a pug tbh. Even pug players can become a force to be reckoned with if they have good leadership and proper 2/2/2 setups.

[anarchypark]

i think kicking should be last measure.
some leaders announce warning only 30 sec ahead.
then start kicking right after. just standing there for about 3min, kicking regrouping.
sometimes in critical moment. ( in my PoV )

it's pug, about paying attention. without comm.
some tolerance required.
kicking might gather attention. i don't think it's good leadership.
whip and carrot. there are other ways to gather attention.
motive, reason, being example, speech and purple numbers.
be careful with whip. too easy use may cause more harm.

but i'm 100% agree kicking whiners.

[Fallenkezef]

You'll never stop casual players being casual. The drop in/drop out element of pugs is one of the main attractions for me, was in live.

Thing is a great many feel that way so you'll always get the lolpugs. Thing is many start there and learn, often the hard way, through it.

Hell if I find people kicking from open pugs like the op suggests I'd start a lolpug just to give those players a chance to get together. Only people I'd kick would be the afks

Sometimes people need to be kicked out of a WB for them to realise any wrongdoings on their behalf: leeching, doing nothing, constantly falling behind, constantly questioning the leader, etc - all of these things warrant kicks, imo.

People often have good reasons for falling behind. I've been in pugs with clueless leaders who sit the WHOLE wb on a bo and do not move, even when other wb's are screaming for help, one such kicked anyone who argued so most of us left formed a new wb and supported the others.

The git then joined the new wb, still sat on bo demsnding the leader kick anyone who didnt camp bo's.

At the end of the day pugs will be pugs. If you want organised play, where everyone does as they are told and you mini-max the composition, why bother opening a pug?

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Or you could... Try being the leader you want to follow. Just try to be patient and aware of the collective mass of players following your lead instead of just yourself. If you haven't ever tried leading, you're missing out on the most mentally punishing and rewarding aspects of the game.

[Reesh]

Or you could... Try being the leader you want to follow. Just try to be patient and aware of the collective mass of players following your lead instead of just yourself. If you haven't ever tried leading, you're missing out on the most mentally punishing and rewarding aspects of the game.

In most cases is just mentally punishing.
Sometimes, regardless whatever you do, typing out the crap out of yourself, tactics, timings; doing kicking; regrouping.
Most often you'll be just left out with half of the warband with "chill and Netflix" mentality.

[Wam]

Spoiler:

too many backseat leaders and not enough drivers im affraid (too much toxic from people being kicked for not following or always whinging)

King Ocara is the best example of pug leading done well... other pug leaders would do well to emulate him, because he is a strong pug leader (that is why he is the King)

There is alot of narrow minded/selfishness about pug play and being too casual (if you are extreme casual you are a liability to your team and are kicked for the reasons that have previously been stated... AFK,doing nothing, falling behind, questioning leader... under level'd, under geared, not even scouting) but pugs by definition is alot of RNG... different experience levels, personalities, expectations mixed into one... that is why you need a strong leader and certain ground rules to blend it all together...

Ocara grafted and earnt his reputation and respect on destro side by never giving up and making the best of what they had available to them in the moment... and pugs listen to him as much as anyone (sometimes they don't even listen to the King which is dumb and they die because of it... just like everytime some pugs will die to oil on keep even when warned well in advance)

From being active and fairly consistant... his pug WB built a core, and is semi organised or guild lite basically with some comm use and structure... with a fighting spirit (which is the most important part)

However I see a majority of pugs have unrealistic expectations and very uncommunicative (see CNTK get flamed and blammed lol) they do very minimum effort and expect maximum reward... when I know too many pug warbands don't have their teammates back its every man for themself mentality instead of stand ground (like bitterstone and fight to the last no matter what)

If more pug wbs stood their ground instead of run away on sight they would be more of a threat... when 6 try to fight and 18 run away, the problem is commitment and trust, commitment to the fight, commitment to your teammate and there lies the basic problems of pugs or weak pug wb's Don't even need to go into balanced groups if people are just going to run away on engage almost everytime unless numbers are 3 to 1 in favour.

Pug leading is a thankless task, your always going to upset someone who wants to leach and never put money where their mouth is... it should be supported more on both realms and less drama if something goes wrong (there is always next fight to put things right) pugs should do more to help themselves though, all the tools are available to them it's not that hard to be semi organised if your troops put in minor effort.

So I can understand some of the frustration from leading pug or the RNG of pug in orvr... just like sc's

not all pug wbs are terrible just alot rout faster than they need too imho

good luck leading

TL DR a lot of pug groups expect their cake and to eat it without even going in the kitchen to bake
and then people seem surprised when it fall's flat with little to no foundation

[Acidic]

i think kicking should be last measure.
some leaders announce warning only 30 sec ahead.
then start kicking right after. just standing there for about 3min, kicking regrouping.
sometimes in critical moment. ( in my PoV )

it's pug, about paying attention. without comm.
some tolerance required.
kicking might gather attention. i don't think it's good leadership.
whip and carrot. there are other ways to gather attention.
motive, reason, being example, speech and purple numbers.
be careful with whip. too easy use may cause more harm.

but i'm 100% agree kicking whiners.

Sounds like you were in a WB was leading
There is method in the madness, you will tend to find the kick and ask questions later mode at the start of a pug WB where leader is trying to focus the mind of the pugs.
Once the group as a whole start behaving the kicking speed reduces but as a pug WB lead you need to beat the pugs now and again to keep them in order.

[Hardkoar]

Expecting too much of a pug is well, unrealistic. Plenty of people start warbands and then give leadership to someone else, if any pug leader was a decent leader he/she would have his/her own guild and selectively make a proper warband. Pugs are exactly that, a bunch of randoms joining forces to somewhat matter a little more in the field and are not to be taken seriously. A decent 10 man can take on any pug, a skilled 6 man with the right comp can take on any pug wb, that alone goes a long way explaining what's up with pugs. Good players do not pug, they join good guilds or play solo/duo/premade with coms.
Many will probably not like hearing this words but it is the reality of MMO's.

Keep your pug expectation to a minimum and then cut it in a half.