How can we salvage Da Big 'Un?

[Haojin]

[Penril]

Spoiler:

Amazing, so where are all these warbands or small scale parties melee parties running their 2H BO's with their "value", 25ft cone extra stat steal option? (No dont bother with "racial group" argument")

Or even bother keeping DBU on their hotbars? Not a single 2h BO i talked to say they ever even use it in their da best plan stage over skull thumper, THC, tough/magic buff, and DYG

Why is it that i see even less 2H BO than chosens now? Surely the value of DBU is not know only to you and penril?

DBU is the only ablity that tries to justify going 2H on BO, a 25ft cone "second option" to try and steal some stats is not enough to justify that, and last i checked BO's were very happy with rate they steal states even without DBU, either the ablity needs to be buffed or scapped and replaced with an ability that WOULD justify using a 2H

Just because DBU requires a 2H does not mean it IS the reason why BO should go 2H. That's like saying "IB should go SnB only because of Shield Reprisal". Or "Choppa has to go Dual Wield only because of Bring it on".

Also your question was kinda strange... why we don't see so many 2H BO's in WBs? Maybe because WB is all about morale bombs and OH THATS RIGHT MORALE PUMP REQUIRES A SHIELD. Nah, that can't be the reason. Or maybe the fact that 2H BO is way squishier than other 2H tanks... nah, that can't be it. It must be because DBU sucks!!!

Spoiler:

Clearly the ability belongs in the Brawler tree. Swap DBU with Trip Em Up, Da Boss can continue being the debuff tree, Da Brawler continues to be 2H tree. If that makes Da Boss too undesirable swap DBU with Wot Armor. Then if Big Brawlin is ever nerfed you can changed the tactic to effect Trip Em Up mirrored to the Kotbs Slice Through.

I don't even know if this is possible with Client Control.

Not, it does not. Da Boss! is about, well, being Da Boss! and buffing your group. Like I mentioned, spamming Big Swing/DBU guarantees DB procs and you can then go back to DG, potentially having several DB/DG buffs up at the same time. In SnB you only have Big Swing, so no matter how you look at it, it is less effective for Bellow Dacing. Does a lot of BOs bellow Dance? Nope, but is an entirely different topic.

Also, if it belonged to Da Brawler, it would do more damage. Its damage sucks, so it clearly does not belong to that tree.

Spoiler:

Being a main 2h BO i feel that Da Big 'Un it's useless 90% of the time

It's main use is to proc a stat steal but why should i use DBU when i have Big Swing that fulfills the exact same thing, debuffs enemy STR and also leads me to Da best Plan, giving me the ability to use a T'ree hit Combo/Skull Thumper?

2h BO are already a meme, we gain nothing at all from going 2h other than looking cool. I don't see the reason why DBU shouldn't be buffed, it's the only skill we gain by using a 2h and fulfills no role whatsoever, not even for damage purposes.

There are a LOT of skills that are useless 90% of the time in this game. Not every skill should be powerful all the time. Ya Missed Me! is useless if all you fight are DPS AMs and BWs. But use it on a WL and it suddenly is great (it stacks with Crippling Strikes too).

Spoiler:

the problem is one of the ways intended for bo when it was launched the one of a heavy armoured tank with aoe capabilitys, waagh dmg skill was reduced aswell.most of it got scraped and changed and what remained was the typical bo style of a pseudo dps tank .

When da greenest was a shield proc (with no cd btw) it was posible for 2 hander bo get into the fray and spam realy decent aoe dmg and get alot of mitigation thanks the shield proc or to proc da toughest original big heal multiple times .

one of the reasons borks never got parry self bufs to play 2 hander was because it was supposed to be the original bellows to keep him up on the fray .

but 1,2 happened and all that was gone.

Lots of assumptions here. Source? (never heard that BO was supposed to be meant as an AoE tank).

Spoiler:

BS is better stat stealer than DBU. Anyways; this spec would work if you want to spam lolaoe :p

http://www.ror.builders/career/black-or ... ,4488,4465

BS is not really a better stat stealer than DBU, they are kinda the same since the Str debuff does not stack with Da Biggest anyway. WAAAGH is good only if you have like a DPS Zealot. Your spec only looks good for PvE farming (no AoE snare!), and even then, depending on what you are farming, I might prefer Can't hit me!.




TL;DR: DBU does not really need a buff. I would honestly go 2H and bellow dance more but i feel way too squishy, specially against BWs. Can't drop my Hold the Line!

[TenTonHammer]

Also your question was kinda strange... why we don't see so many 2H BO's in WBs? Maybe because WB is all about morale bombs and OH THATS RIGHT MORALE PUMP REQUIRES A SHIELD. Nah, that can't be the reason. Or maybe the fact that 2H BO is way squishier than other 2H tanks... nah, that can't be it. It must be because DBU sucks!!!

Firstly Chosen has the best morale pump in the game yet in WB's before the CS changes people still ran 2H chosen

"Squshiyness" is irrelevent in a WB setting in the context of other 2H tanks defenses such as parry because 2H BG ant Chosen arnt running up to people and hitting them with melee attacks; most of the time , they are staying like 40~30 feet away and using CD/ RB


Secondly Hao in the order tank thread already talked about how BO's can get "high parry levels"

[Haojin]

@penril
that lolspec is just a presentation for how a BO can spam DBU. nothing else, no utility, no support, just for maximizing dbu which is bullshit.

[Penril]

Also your question was kinda strange... why we don't see so many 2H BO's in WBs? Maybe because WB is all about morale bombs and OH THATS RIGHT MORALE PUMP REQUIRES A SHIELD. Nah, that can't be the reason. Or maybe the fact that 2H BO is way squishier than other 2H tanks... nah, that can't be it. It must be because DBU sucks!!!

Firstly Chosen has the best morale pump in the game yet in WB's before the CS changes people still ran 2H chosen

"Squshiyness" is irrelevent in a WB setting in the context of other 2H tanks defenses such as parry because 2H BG ant Chosen arnt running up to people and hitting them with melee attacks; most of the time , they are staying like 40~30 feet away and using CD/ RB


Secondly Hao in the order tank thread already talked about how BO's can get "high parry levels"

Parry does absoutely squat against ranged, which order has A LOT of. Parry only helps against guard damage.

As for Chosen u said it yourself: before CS nerf. Also, 2H Chosen is tankier than 2H BO (Tzeentchs Amplification).

[DokB]

DBU is the only skill that the BO has which is tied to 2h. I feel the whole issue with DBU sucking is more to do with the versatility of 2H BO compared with SnB BO.

When you have bellows focused around surviving as long as possible and constantly debuffing with your stat steal/snaring/challenging etc. the enemy, it’s obvious that you should go with SnB for the extra survivability so you can last longer in combat and not get eaten by RDPS. 2H simply doesn’t offer anything desirable over SnB, rather than a small spike in damage (and aesthetics I guess – Fashionhammer should always come first ). In SC you can get away with running 2H with a guard on you, in RvR it’s not really an option since RDPS will delete you fairly easily when you don’t have the extra block chance + HtL at your disposal. In almost all cases SnB is superior.


If the BO had better survivability as 2H with some form of ability, whether it be a better absorb or a dodge/disrupt effect, then DBU would definitely perform its role better as a no AP cost additional chance at stat stealing.
That being said, if I did run 2H more often, I would still use Big Swing over DBU since it’s a 360 degree 30 foot AoE which can tag people all around you which gives you more chances to steal stats. Only downside to Big Swing is its high-ish AP cost but that can be alleviated with Get em!