[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[Penril]

It isn't. But some things work much better than others. Chosen/BO (with BO running some of the tactics I said were good) is more effective than double BO. You are giving advice from a "racial groups" point of view. I give advice taking all setups into consideration.

Speaking about Chosen... If you have one, you don't even need to cycle Biggest/Greenest, since the resist value from aura is almost as good as Da Greenest (and has 100% uptime, while DG needs you to be attacked AND has a 25% chance to proc AND only buffs your defense against that particular damage type) and like I mentioned already, DG doesn't stack with armor pots. So better to just use DB all the time.

[ragafury]

Spoiler:

You got nuffin is situational.
Da toughest warbellow is situational. Go ask megladonis, probably the best BO on the server. He uses it when the situation calls for it.
The bellows/blade enchants isn't stagnant. You can switch them mid combat to fit the situation your in.

Dat was great is amazing. It is really good I use it quite a bit.
Bring em on is highly highly highly situational and super intriguing. It looks like it requires a specific group comp. (I have yet to test it out in that group comp but want to, to make my own judgments, after testing that group comp, I'll have a better stance.)
Keep it going is crap. It would be good if it removed the AE knockback so your not handing immunities out like candy.
Mor' ard core is situational.
Rock ard isn't bad but its not amazing either.

Sorry I think differently then you Penril. Nice try on trying to shame me into a corner but its not going to work.
Is this what you do when someone thinks differently then you? Try to shame them? I guess so.

Yes, we think differently. My replies are mostly for the people who might think you are correct. I know it is pointless trying to convince you.

First of all, Chosen/BO and BG/BO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double BO. No question about it. Saying that you can have a BO run cookie cutter while the other uses unorthodox specs doesn't help your case; run a Chosen to maximize your group potential.

Having said that, you should only have 1 BO in your group, which means you only have 4 tactic slots. 2 of those tactics are mandatory:

- Big Brawling (AoE snare)
- You seez me block dat (still great)

That leaves you with only 2 tactic slots left. Now you have to choose from the following tactics:

- Good wif shield (10% more block = more morale boost procs)
- Stab ye gooder, if you want to deal more damage
- Gork Smash, great synergy with SYG
- Guud at big choppin, kinda mandatory for 2H BOs
- Rugged, same thing as GaBC
- added I'm da biggest, cause it's good for WBs / largescale even if you wrote it down in the next paragr.



All those tactics are MUCH better than YGN, which is a crappy heal. If you have good healers, they will get you back to 100% health before YGN runs its full effect.

Same thing with Da Toughest!. The heal is crap (320?). The only good thing about it would be the increased wounds, but if you really need more wounds just use I'm da Biggest! (another tactic that is better than YGN). Sure, you should cycle bellows, but only between Da Biggest! and Da Greenest!, which actually help your whole group. Da Toughest! only affects you. I don't care what Megladonis says (and a lot of people will disagree with him being best BO on the server, even with population as low as it currently is; no disrepect meant, I'm sure he is a nice guy).
cool for PvE, or if you have no healer in a sc and you are holding a flag alone vs. 1,2,3 enemies, but at some point you want a heal and not delay your death.

Dat was great! is crap since your armor debuff is spammable anyway, so incresed duration on WA is pointless. The toughness debuff might look interesting but it is only 75; better to use a DPS Shaman (if you really want to stack Toughness debuffs from a tactic and a skill) and debuff it by 240. 240>>>>>>75.
pointless, every 2nd GCD is usually Wot Armor, better options on the market.


Bring Em on! is crap since it might put you in a stance you don't want. What if you want to AoE punt? Or snare? Funny that you call it situational and intriguin yet you accept you haven't even tested it.
screws rotations in theory. just a wasted tactic in pracise cause better options, far better options.
THC has CD, DYG, NIDF, SYF etc. everything has CD. nobody needs that much skullthumpers or ... SMH.

Mor Hardcore is crap; the distance is too short. You want a ST punt? Don't give away immunities and let a Chosen/BG punt for you.
Just don't.

Rock Ard is crap. The value is pretty low and even with very high toughness the absorb shield goes off pretty much immediately.

It's ok for PvE /grinding, but don't specc for it in WBs, I experimented enough with it.

We'z bigger is crap. It doesn't stack with armor pots or Da Greenest.
^this

Even No Choppin me is kinda crappy unless you are Toughest/Boss spec and still want to buff your group's WS.
really, really supportish. some classes can't even make use of it (magus, sorc). depends on setups. most of the time you are better off with using the standard tactics. Perhabs if you really have 4 BOs in a WB 1 could go for it and play the support b****.

wouldn't call all crap,... but yeah you are right. it's just a matter of fact that the "metatactics" are the most efficient.

would always run BO + x. in small scale it's hard to seperate guard and guarded target for a BO with his punt.
In large scale chosen aura is better vs burst, cause the aura is preemptive and the bellow needs to trigger before it's activated (25% chance). Everything which is not in the cluster / list above I would rate as highly experimental / situational, besides loudmouth, as I said, it doesn't scale, so I think it's fine. I run it in solo roam to maximize dmg.

[Penril]

Solo tactics are completely different and some tactics that you would never consider for premades suddenly become interesting.

I used to run several different setups with Closetgoblin on live (not really soloing with BO in RoR... yet) in case I ran into a BW, or a SM, or a healer, etc. At that point you can see the usefulness of some tactics like Don't bother me none!, Lookin' for opptunity, and even Focused Offense lol (armor is useless against AM/BW right? )

[footpatrol2]

There are pro's and con's with all your choices. I understand your viewpoint on taking the 2nd chosen. I know the classic argument.

You don't lose a ton by taking a boss BO thou. The biggest thing you lose is the super punt and the resistance aura. The resistance aura is somewhat mitigated by DG. Losing super punt is a big deal thou.

There are a lot of tricks that two BO's can do that Chosen/Bo combo can't do. Some that I have listed.

With that said There is tricks that a Chosen/Bo can do that a double BO group can't do. Some that you have listed.

Pro's and Con's always.

Taking two BO's also free's up tactic slots for your BO's if you take a 2nd one. Such as do you need to have 2 AE snare's? You can have two DYG's in your group with two BO's. You can have two not in da face for 100% upkeep...blah blah long list.

Chosen's are not part of a morale bomb either. Bo's are. There is a long list of stuff that two BO's can do. There is also a long list of stuff that BO/Chosen's can do. Take a hard look at what your losing/gaining by taking a Boss BO as a 2nd tank over a chosen and the difference is not disgustingly massive.

[Penril]

Eh, if you insist on running double BO, then yeah obviously one of them can run a different, unusual spec. I pretty much stated that (in the "have a BO run cookie cutter while the other uses unorthodox specs" part).

Even then though, YGN is still crap

[footpatrol2]

Whatev's.
Love ya Penril

[Dreadspectre]

I just want to nitpick that DWG says it lowers Toughness by 120 for me right now. That's nothing to sneeze at is it?

[Collateral]

I just want to nitpick that DWG says it lowers Toughness by 120 for me right now. That's nothing to sneeze at is it?

It's not bad, but if you're running full brawler bo he will steal 120 stats as well. And considering how much da biggest procs in combat you are pretty much guaranteed a toughness debuff. So slotting the tactic would just be a waste. Maybe I could test it out in solo/duo play, but I'm not confident in any good results, since there are tactics that simply overshadow it, like the DoT on follow me lead, 20s juggernaut cd or ap tactic (which is seriously good btw).

[footpatrol2]

I use DWG because ST targets are dieing in like two or three GCD's which doesn't guarantee a toughness debuff on the target. We are pouring all of our efforts into one target with the intention of it dieing. I don't want to wait/hope for a toughness debuff to trigger. I want it dead now.

Brawler BO is the main source of the armor debuff for our group comps. I'd rather ensure that I got the toughness debuff on the target then hope for it. I'm not saying we use it 100% all the time. But there are situations for it. If your not using a BO as the main source of the armor debuff or your grabing a toughness debuff from somewhere else, I can see how it would be a waste.

In larger engagements DWG is not that useful because you got SO much stat steal/ST/AE damage that it don't matter anyway.

[Bozzax]

Holy moly!!!

So much crazyness if you ever would run 2xbo (if all chosen and bgs are on vacation) the both would ofc be brawler and aoe snare. Everything else is 100% waste.

Boss is a complete mess and only BB and corp debuff is worth taking. Position of the latter makes it out of reach though

/brytex