DPS spec tank/healer Hypocrisy

[warislove]

im all for making this game more attractive for ppl outside the EU zone, you guys have to deal with lower population and crazy ping i would be pissed too.

even though i love this game so much i dunno if i would stick around...

how to make more ppl play NA/Oceanic/Far East timezone? i wish i had a good solution

[Nefarian78]

This thread is really getting into another "let's bash the guy that can't play premade all the day"

I think Gate is right, guard is an issue, certainly not the only one but one that needs to be looked at.

When i had the time to always play premades i too didn't realize how clunky and boring guard was, until i had to start to pug in order to be able to play. Most of these players that are saying there's no issues are just players that can always have a fresh supply of tanks, and have never been forced to pug once in their playtime on RoR.

Sweeping the problems under the rug is just going to make it worse. There's a reason the numbers have been going down, and it's not only because the update isn't new anymore. there are issues and (in my opinion at least) guard is the main issue the pug population is having, and considering pugs and soloplayers are a big chunk of the playerbase it should at least deserve to be looked at.

But as always, until the issues don't affect the premaders, it's always fine, and there's no problem whatsoever.

[peterthepan3]

Balance should revolve around people playing competently within a group setting.

That being said, I do empathise with concerns brought by you and others from the NA. It is painfully dead at times, and scenarios barely pop. However, how do you faciltiate to the NA lot while not having an overbearing effect on overall balance, too?

Will 'fixing guard' (I don't think it needs any fixing, personally) really bring about more people? We have to be realistic, too.

[dansari]

I'm not an expert but the people who are leaving I think are doing it for various reasons:

1. It's not rewarding to play solo (unless you are an rdps or an over performing class like ab ex shammy or WL, honestly, at least on order side since there are a plethora of tanks on destro)
2. The amount of time it takes to flip a zone and the current state of the BO supply run game, which leads to
3. The loot roll RNG mechanic is not fun, or rewarding (the move to 750/750 was a step in the right direction, but it didn't go far enough in not making people feel like they wasted hours of their life for nothing (and this isn't figurative.. especially if you're in an open warband you could get a very small amount of conq medallions for hours and hours of grind).

Gate has covered this before, but changing the way orvr works *could* lead to more fun, i.e. changing the zone to a point system like Nordenwatch, putting a timer on the zone (like two hours), and giving conq medallions in bags (because even small amounts will allow players to see themselves progressing, and with progress comes the satisfaction of feeling rewarded for your time spent playing). Do what is currently being done with the new shoulder/helm sets: test it out to see what works. I say all of this because gate is right: currently your main objective is to fight against your own realm to try to increase your contribution as much as possible. Flip a BO and run before a warband shows up. Click like mad on one spot so you can have the opportunity of running from that BO to your keep with the rest of your party and avoiding all fights on the way there.

And honestly I don't think there is anything to lose. People are playing the alpha with the expectation that things will change and be tested (renown will get cut back, experimental changes will happen, etc.)

@peter: I disagree because as it stands guard is clunky even for people running in premade groups - hell yesterday I had guard on a team member, had it broadcast through GES and everything, but turns out I didn't actually take any of the damage meant for him.

[Nefarian78]

Balance should revolve around people playing competently within a group setting.

That being said, I do empathise with concerns brought by you and others from the NA. It is painfully dead at times, and scenarios barely pop. However, how do you faciltiate to the NA lot while not having an overbearing effect on overall balance, too?

Will 'fixing guard' (I don't think it needs any fixing, personally) really bring about more people? We have to be realistic, too.

I don't think anyone said that you have to balance the game around pugs and soloing (do we even know what is the balance target? 6v6s? Wb vs Wb?) and i agree completely about balance revolving around group play because after all this is a MMO. But at the same time i'd like to play the game too without being forced to always play in a premade in order to make progress toward getting a new piece of gear or to simply have FUN playing the game.

[Deadkiller]

In my Eyes no One needs this dps tanks Cuz in dpa spec you die exactly so fast like a melee but you do lack of dmg so its pointless! If you wana make dmg Play a dd Class! Tanks See Support chars so do what is your job ans Support @ the Frontline or backline if needed !! Sure in the end everybody can Play what they want. But in the end is teamplay very necassry to win in this Game so you Need to do your job! And in the end cry Cuz no One wants to Grp up with you or you get flamed you Need to live with that cuz you dont make the job what doi Need to do...

[dansari]

Again, this isn't about people needing to "get good" or learn their class, it's about guard being a selfless, clunky, outdated ability.

[lilsabin]

Again, this isn't about people needing to "get good" or learn their class, it's about guard being a selfless, clunky, outdated ability.

hahahaha , i am just reading the post and counting the number of time some of you had to repeat yourselves... good luck tho

[ragafury]

But at the same time i'd like to play the game too without being forced to always play in a premade in order to make progress toward getting a new piece of gear or to simply have FUN playing the game.

nobody denies you that, but your gear progression will be slower. so join a pug. I do the same if I have spare time and guildwise nothing is going on. Nobody is locked out from enjoying the endgame content. I saw that in many other mmorpgs.
As I wrote in the beginning of the Thread I play sc pug as an example, and sometimes even wb in the evening / afternoon.


unlike in other mmorpg games, gear progression is here really fast. you ding 40. you can equip ruin (it's farmed pug in max 2 days), one of the best sets for tanks, at least place 5 for every other class in the game. you follow a pug, you get officer medals en masse, after aprox. 5-15 hours ingame you get the 2nd best gear there is. you ding 40 and can go beastlord, instant, almost no gear requirement. if you want to go safe, the whole group should have ruin / merc, but the BLs are not that gear intensive. you can spam scenarios for merc. you can buy off the AH boots + hands and only need 3 pieces, you can farm one piece in 8 hours if you slack around. so what is left? 2 uberendgame sets, from which is one mediocre at it's best for many classes. dom. even that you can farm it with playing half ass mode scenario, you don't run into the evil premade groups (which I've seen failing at both ends, destro and order, losing sc's vs pug) if you queue pug scenario.

so you can only speak of conq. cause this set has the slowest gear progression. if you don't have the time to farm it, than don't farm it, it's an unachievable personal goal and your goal is too high. yes it takes a lot of effort, yes, if you want to do it time efficient you should play in a premade / or in a guild warband. don't set your goals too high and enjoy the game. that goes for every mmorpg, because every mmorpg tries to serve to some degree a specific audience. you are part of the audience ofc, but the content there is at some point is basically unreachable for you. and even if you want it to pull it out of bags, you need to be early in the zone, continuesly contributing and that until the end. so EU primetime on average if no side gets dominated: 5-6 hours.

I don't see myself as an elitist player. you never see me run in 6 mans with my tank, only guild warbands (so primetime player). sometimes if I'm really bored on my healer roaming 6 man because it is fun, and even that, most of the times without comms. (really rare, and only if zone was fast done). And when we did it, we never went for the glorious 2-2-2 setup.

I never got a better bag than blue on him.

BUT.. I can invest a lot of hours daily in that game (atm. 6+ at least) for my main (playing zone on primetime, and every 2nd or 3rd day a zone in the afternoon if I got time[pug]). so I compensate my effiency by investing more time.

so. if you want conq: bring effiency or time, or both, and you will get it. If you lacking both it's a long term goal. and it should be okay, cause everybody should have a long term goal in this game, not just you, and not just me, and not just hardcore players. At some point you will get it if you keep playing, there is the token mechanic, and that gurantees it for everybody who keeps playing on the long run. it's a carrot on the stick and the frosting on the cake simultaneously.

Even though, if you have checked the newest patchnotes, there is a spreadsheet which teasers new gear sets which are under conq / dom but above or same level as annihilator. "Onslaught Set".

I know, this post will again have no impact, because people will cry for giefconqnaoh. but at least I tried.
I know Onslaught will not be good enough, everybody needs the best, now, everybody drives a porsche, and every porsche driver had 0 effort in getting one and never worked a day in there life, that's how life works ofc.

[zumos2]

@peter: I disagree because as it stands guard is clunky even for people running in premade groups - hell yesterday I had guard on a team member, had it broadcast through GES and everything, but turns out I didn't actually take any of the damage meant for him.

That means either of the three things:
1) you were not in guard range
2) another tank applied guard first and was taking the guard damage
3) you first applied guard but then removed it accidentally by pressing guard button three times instead of two. Note the response of this quick double tap is the only thing wrong with guard sometimes.