Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

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Eathisword
Posts: 808

Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#41 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:00 am

Jaycub wrote: What would be in 6v6 considered awful tankplay such as cross guarding tanks bum rushing healers, is all the sudden a very credible threat or at least gimping your healing to the point when diving into the other teams backlines becomes an impossibility.
Why do I suddenly feel implicated in this discussion 0.o !

More on topic, I think Jaycub is kinda right. Everyone throws melee pain train 6 man left and right in this thread, yet the most dangerous and annoying 6 man running in RvR are rdps based. Nuclearpotatoe, Teefz, Zeromancer, Simtex, etc... getting them 50, 60, 70 kills with 0-1 deaths everyday in every zones. There is never any mdps that even remotely come close to those numbers. Not even in the same realm. Here and there, since the AoE change, you see a mara/choppa/slayer going like 30-8 or 45-9. Before the change it was appaling. The ''melee'' ( I include myself as 2H IB) were in the 4-1 to 10-1 ratio of kills. The Rdps can easily go into to 100-1 kill ratio.

Now in scenarios, the same applies. Mdps train can/will generally be able to spawn camp rdps comp (equal skill groups), but the amount kills is ridiculously low as rdps will just fall to the safety of their WC and shoot from the cover of the guards. Again, it is not rare to see a rdps go 10-0 in a losing scen, just from shooting people down from nearly 100% relative safety.

But heh, I made my peace with it : GOOD rdps are almost unkillable as melee in 90% of situation. They will always be able to kite away, even in group play, or prekite, M2, RD and the such. I only wish they couldn't also flee when you do catch em lol.

And oh, stealthers are fine. There are some very strong 6 man using WE/WH (Henrietta and Theinala come to mind). When well played, their ST damage output is off the charts and they are tougher to kill than choppa/slayer. Mara/WL are in another realm. But thats another problem, like the chosen/knight problem.
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Jaycub
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Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#42 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:55 am

^I hope it didn't come off as an insult, you guys definitely do carry scenarios and we literally have to play differently just because you guys are in unless your pugs are terrible.

About kills ya, those 50+ zone kills on one person is usually attributed to RDPS. I've seen soapz pull over 50 a few times on choppa. About melee in general, only viable one with the changes imo is the mara, but its still super gimmicky but amazing when it comes together, me and blak were able to pull 100+ between us granted it was a perfect situation defense. And i've seen BW's do over 100 themselves.

I only play WH on order, and pretty much only get on to do keep D. It's pretty effective running around even without guard while you have group heal from lord room. But it's mostly picking off poor pugs or poking the backlines when they push, I've tried getting more zone kills than beardz on his engi the past 5 or so defenses and could never pull it off and I tried pretty hard. The second you meet an organized force you pretty much wish you were on RDPS because getting picks becomes nearly impossible and your contribution to a frontline fight against a good warband is pretty sad, and you often times are just a liability.

about 6 mans and wh/we, I don't think they are that far off, just the other options tend to be safer picks while not really losing anything critical. But the def got the short end of the stick with the AoE changes, as Hao said... you can still put out insane numbers on MDPS with aoe without having to actually spec for it... unfortunately that leaves out WH/WE.
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Eathisword
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Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#43 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:10 am

Spoiler:
Jaycub wrote:^I hope it didn't come off as an insult, you guys definitely do carry scenarios and we literally have to play differently just because you guys are in unless your pugs are terrible.

About kills ya, those 50+ zone kills on one person is usually attributed to RDPS. I've seen soapz pull over 50 a few times on choppa. About melee in general, only viable one with the changes imo is the mara, but its still super gimmicky but amazing when it comes together, me and blak were able to pull 100+ between us granted it was a perfect situation defense. And i've seen BW's do over 100 themselves.

I only play WH on order, and pretty much only get on to do keep D. It's pretty effective running around even without guard while you have group heal from lord room. But it's mostly picking off poor pugs or poking the backlines when they push, I've tried getting more zone kills than beardz on his engi the past 5 or so defenses and could never pull it off and I tried pretty hard. The second you meet an organized force you pretty much wish you were on RDPS because getting picks becomes nearly impossible and your contribution to a frontline fight against a good warband is pretty sad, and you often times are just a liability.

about 6 mans and wh/we, I don't think they are that far off, just the other options tend to be safer picks while not really losing anything critical. But the def got the short end of the stick with the AoE changes, as Hao said... you can still put out insane numbers on MDPS with aoe without having to actually spec for it... unfortunately that leaves out WH/WE.
Nah m8, wasn't offensive at all. I grew some ironskin since i started doing videos lol. Agreed that WE/WH have it bad in AoE situation, but they can't have it all. They are the best solo melee, among the best ST melee. I mean, they can suk in AoE can't they ?

Lots of kills is possible on Mdps. I've seen Blak's slayer 40-0 in keep defense, but only when both doors are down and its Lord room fight. Before that, melee is meh, while Range are kings.
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Volgograd, RR80 IB
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#44 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:19 am

Idk, I honestly feel like my mara does more damage than my WH even with SoD up. The TB>Claw>HD>channel(cancel) into guillotine combo is retarded burst and usually kills ungaurded pugs outright and only has a 10 sec cd. If TB crits that's an opener that does ~2500 damage, kinda insane really.

WH/WE bogged down by stealth timers, 60 sec CD buffs and whatnot. Hell mara even gets a better 60 sec CD buff and it's not a class defining skill like they are for WE/WH (each tree has 1 you can spec and there are even arbitrary limitation on using more than 1).

WL being the same thing, trading wounds debuff for high damage skills like coordinated strike and better mobility via pounce (not counting mara utlity just killing potential).
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porkstar
Posts: 721

Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#45 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:37 am

Spoiler:
Eathisword wrote:
Spoiler:
Jaycub wrote:^I hope it didn't come off as an insult, you guys definitely do carry scenarios and we literally have to play differently just because you guys are in unless your pugs are terrible.

About kills ya, those 50+ zone kills on one person is usually attributed to RDPS. I've seen soapz pull over 50 a few times on choppa. About melee in general, only viable one with the changes imo is the mara, but its still super gimmicky but amazing when it comes together, me and blak were able to pull 100+ between us granted it was a perfect situation defense. And i've seen BW's do over 100 themselves.

I only play WH on order, and pretty much only get on to do keep D. It's pretty effective running around even without guard while you have group heal from lord room. But it's mostly picking off poor pugs or poking the backlines when they push, I've tried getting more zone kills than beardz on his engi the past 5 or so defenses and could never pull it off and I tried pretty hard. The second you meet an organized force you pretty much wish you were on RDPS because getting picks becomes nearly impossible and your contribution to a frontline fight against a good warband is pretty sad, and you often times are just a liability.

about 6 mans and wh/we, I don't think they are that far off, just the other options tend to be safer picks while not really losing anything critical. But the def got the short end of the stick with the AoE changes, as Hao said... you can still put out insane numbers on MDPS with aoe without having to actually spec for it... unfortunately that leaves out WH/WE.
Spoiler:
Nah m8, wasn't offensive at all. I grew some ironskin since i started doing videos lol. Agreed that WE/WH have it bad in AoE situation, but they can't have it all. They are the best solo melee, among the best ST melee. I mean, they can suk in AoE can't they ?

Lots of kills is possible on Mdps. I've seen Blak's slayer 40-0 in keep defense, but only when both doors are down and its Lord room fight. Before that, melee is meh, while Range are kings.

If anyone does it right, its def you and Emkaataa.
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porkstar
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Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#46 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:53 am

I think about this often and maybe its because I play NA and pop is low. I only ever played in 6 person groups on live. Would the RDPS vs MDPS be as much of an issue if super competitive groups formed actual warbands and fought each-other? I see really good groups of six often enough. Is the player base just not large enough to get 24 + 24 good players together at a time? I do understand the logistical issue of building an entire WB. But the question remains, would RDPS superiority be more exaggerated or tempered in some way?
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Penril wrote:So you are saying that a class you never touched is OP?
Go play it before posting about it pal...

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mikke
Posts: 148

Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#47 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:08 pm

So it would be nice if Devs told us when they plan to boost MDPS, especially choppa\slayer. I dont believe that someone grandma run slayer and deal good with any RDPS in game. Right now there are no chances for choppa vs any RDPS, even using RD.
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Tesq
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Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#48 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:02 pm

actually destru mdps have problem catch orders kiters not viceversa. Take a sorc against any good wl is basically a suicide, in the moment you're tank push and get snared , he jump kill the sorc in 2 GCD or force all the team to keep run back ever x second.
If you have a mix of 2 party 1 bs/sw and another one slayer/wl against you can't even move it would be better at that point go aoe because it's impossible play when 2 way to play cover each other weakness and can ista kill 1 ppl. Currently due to renown skill this is even worst. With out count if you ignore the pet the min he can do is apply a 10sec snare all day or cover you while you kite (why even 10sec jeez all mdps should snare 5 sec).

But mine must be a bias vs order as always. (sorc dosen't even have a 25% heal debuff bw get a 50% and funnel power lol plus rkd), it's basically easier play a bw over a sorc and is also better).
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Krima
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Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#49 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:48 pm

Order MDPS surprise atack is much better also..
WH + WL combo is much better than WE+MARA/
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lastalien
Posts: 456

Re: Current state of MDPS vs RDPS?

Post#50 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:53 pm

neighbor's chicken is always better than our goose :)
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