Witch Hunter's Current Place in the Meta?

[Jaycub]

Decided to reroll back to WH from WL, and trying to insert it into our melee trains and miscellaneous group setups. But I am having a hard time seeing what exactly WH brings to a group on order.

Virtually all it's utility is more than enough covered by other meta classes. Outgoing HD is covered by WL/IB, knockdown covered by tanks/slayer etc... Exit wound is only getting good value against MDPS, with its 240 WS / +100/100 toughness/str debuff over knight auras. It's kind of a joke but I really think the best utility WH brings to a group right now is the armor debuff proc on it's pistol so you can run SM+Knight.

It's the easiest MDPS to shutdown due to lack of charge, and invis is really only usable at the beginning of a fight to surprise a healer/squishy and have your train get on them with a quick KD. You are also heavily dependent on positionals, this combines to make it so you almost have to run a slayer with WH so the slayer is taking heat and WH can sort of do it's thing. It certainly can't function in a 3-2-1 group either as a frontman DPS.

Doing this you lose WL armor debuff and WL's ability to be extremely hard to shutdown, and fetch/M1 are extremely useful lockdown abilities in fact I'd say M1 root is just a better version of what the WH invis suprise KD does.


I'm just genuinely having trouble seeing where WH fits in and wondering if anyone has any good experience running them in any sort of group.

[Cimba]

I can only speak for 3/2/1 setups. We ran WH with decent results in 6on6, scs, and rvr. As for 6on6 you can see some videos in this thread. Not all of them are with WH but I believe the majority are.

So why do we ran WH? Compared to every other mdps he is the one who can function the best on it's own. In a sense it's not about what he brings to the group it's more about not being a liability if he's not babysitted by a tank.

As you pointed out he has very little unqiue utility that can't be covered by other classes. What is unique is his ability to stealth. Stealthing mid fight is probably his most important tool as it's often the only way to close a gap. Additionally if the opponent doesn't notice or respect a stealthed dps it can go south for them very quickly.

However in the future in think we will gravitate towards a mdps SM instead of a WH. Because SM has some really good group utility while have comparble damage (over time) to a WH. We trade some burst damage and the surprise element of WH for more stability. Which is overall a decent trade because, honestly, triple dd setups can be very stressful to play.

[Tesq]

The utility of the wh is a very high burst out of nowhere, burn lies away and the meccanic gain is very fast, it can also swap target fast since it dosen't work by apply debuff or what apply also does big dmg like burn lies away. Also utility? melee need to do a tons of dmg, if wh conver with his dmg for a wounds debuff then so be it (and ye it does).

regardless:
-spamable ap drain/initiative drain/out h-debuff
-can also remove enemy morale
-silence
-disarm
-inc heal debuff
-same aoe m2 as mara for some ista aoe bomb on demand.
-def m3 which increase all groups parry for 50% x 10 sec ( you know that wp that was nearby unkillable now it is even more!)

can have all in the same build (exept moral remove require trade 1 tactic for it and the price is huge); bullet can now be swap during stealth. Probably the most durable Mdps orderside if set up/played well.

[Lileldys]

WH/WE are the classes with the solid kit for hard CC. Slayer would have to expend rage to K/D which is where WH/WE can come in advantage. Never forget the Silence too, not as strong as a K/D but is useful. Throw on a disarm and you get a neat hard CC package with good dps.

The isssue is that most of this can be performed by other classes, KDs from tanks and Silences from healers.

I think WH/WE become a lot stronger as the armour tiers go up. Right now everyone is squishy enough that WL/Mara armour debuffs are king. Once the Armour ratings increase then people will look to other options.
When you look at endgame on live, it was rare to see a WL, now they're everywhere. The armour debuff on a player in full WF wasn't nearly as strong compared to our cap of Annihilator.

Basically is a terrible class right now, but i'd like to see what happens when we get to Sovereign.

[Krima]

bottom.. Slayers and WL will do the job much ez.

WE/WH will only get better once we have +2 tiers of armor from now.

[blaqwar]

I am waiting to see the results of the Dragon Gun change thread. If the change manages to give WHs some more brawling utility, changing a few tactics would improve the sustainable damage of the career and possibly bring it up in group comps.

On a related note, I see more WEs in small scale comps than I see WHs. Is it just because of how the sustainable damage of WEs is better in 6 mans over the burstier nature of WHs? Or maybe it's just the general MDPS balance within Order and Destro.

[shaggyboomboom]

I am waiting to see the results of the Dragon Gun change thread. If the change manages to give WHs some more brawling utility, changing a few tactics would improve the sustainable damage of the career and possibly bring it up in group comps.

On a related note, I see more WEs in small scale comps than I see WHs. Is it just because of how the sustainable damage of WEs is better in 6 mans over the burstier nature of WHs? Or maybe it's just the general MDPS balance within Order and Destro.

The WE has generally better sustain and more burst than the WH.

[Jaycub]

For medium armor, full sov is 800 more armor over annihilator. But the defensive set has the +500 armor set bonus, and I really think the defensive sets will end up getting nerfed.

Armor pots were also up on the chopping block recently

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=18080

What will come of it I'm not too sure


@Cimba thanks for the response I'll take a look at those videos.

[footpatrol2]

This is just theory, I don't play a Wh but I got a witch.

Double down on the playstyle strength of WH's. Bring two. You can seriously start playing mind games with two WH's and super punts. Alternate the spec's.

If you get a rep of running two WH's players will become terrified of your tanks because they don't know what is attached to them. Use that fear to play mind games with the opposition. Coordinate the stealth and make sure your inline of sight of the enemy. You want the opposition too see both WH's stealth in a coordinated fashion. This should terrify them. Engage or don't, you control the flow.

There are mind games for days with two WH's.

One day I want to try this out with witches. One day...

[Toldavf]

WH has the same issues its always had. When it comes to trade in 6 vs 6 its easily the worst mdps for it.