So, this happened is a scenario the other day...

[Theseus]

Funny the Squigh Herder which has been nerfed-fixed 4 or 5 times already, is doing less damage than the enginer with defensive build, and the enginer still can do 200k heals, and beat the Shaman healers.

So we have now enginers which heal better than healers, do more damage in defensive form than range damage dealers, and i am pretty sure if we could quantify the amount of dodge-disrupt and damage mitigated with theyr 4k+ armour and theyr 32% dodge-damage buff, they will be better tanks than the tanks too.

PD: (Squigh herder need a damage boost in the abilities, for the damage amount lost from diferent pet fixes and range nerf, and the lacking of magical-corporeal damage in theyr abilities, test yourself if you wanna see how much damage are doing DoT abilities in people)

Looks like a late entry, SH only has 2 deaths. Scale his damage up with the sorc who has 6 deaths. I can easily get in the top 5 damage with my SH who is R37 currently. Damage doesn't mean much.
Context is important, scen scoreboards are terrible metrics to use.

Engi did the least damage for RDPS on their team by a large margin. Next highest RDPS did 40% more damage. That's the trade-off when you go deep into tinkerer. What seems likely is that he was way in the back, perhaps a flame turret, spamming keg and occasionally getting some damage in. Note both slayers were on the frontline, and both SW's took 1 death each. Engi did not, so the points spent to get keg were wasted. Keg is short range spec, and no short range abilities were likely used.

As to whether Engi actually outhealed is unknown, the list is sorted by damage. The lowest damage dealers are usually the dedicated healers, so they would be missing from the list. Just another instance where scoreboards are misleading, and cherrypicked at times, or just totally lacking in the context needed to make an assessment.

If you have a SH lvl 37, you must be agree the Squigh herder damage is a too low damage output right now, just a kill shot stealer with many pathetic hits in low amount of time and which lose all damage each time he face somebody with a minimal amount of armour, or theyr disturbing dependance of moral 2 for make any type of minimaly decent burst.
I have one 40 and 65 renow, and i know it is not an equipment, stats or lack of renow points problem... and since the pet nerf and fixes, the influence of the class in scenarios is low or none.

Out of curiosity, did you ever make a balance proposal? I read a lot of posts of you that the sh damage bugs you. So why not do a proposal how to solve that? It pretty much helped me with my WH problem.

On to the subject of this post. From my experience of someone who fought beside Engineers, the keg seems to me as nice addition to decrease the workload of the healers.... but its not really an instrument to compensate focused damage even from one player.
Fot that, the tics are way to low.
At least in my expierience..... So it may be an annoiance, but a seizable impact to the sc... i dont really think so. At least for 90% of the sc.

[Noergl]

That amount of healing from kegs is very rare, im guessing order had no real healers in that sc.
The reason why kegs are not great is because you have to stand within 30ft, something that in a proper sc fight is not easy, most the time as an engi with a keg you drop it and a few seconds later everyone has moved away from it, not to mention if you focus on dropping kegs every 10 secs and providing ap to everyone from your turret you are taking a hit in dps potential.
Myself i dont see why kegs need to be changed at all they are rarely amazing, it still counts as a heal and can be heal debuffed.
As for mirroring it, that makes little sense, sure magus doesnt have an aoe heal but magus as much as they are engi mirror are quite different, aegis of orange fire is better in certain situations then kegs and vice the versa.

You´re totally right! My engie is full tinkerer, ist very very rare that a dropped keg could heal its possible potential. In open rvr, with everyone running around... nope. In fast paced scs... nope. In keep defense... yes. That should be my comfort zone, i have range as far as i can spit, but i am a close supporter, so funnel or lord room should be where im best. I couldnt do much until that last defense moment, except dropping kegs again and again, because hitting something was until that moment more like wishful thinking. Oh, ok, and in my bt formation ofc . In my personal opinion it works fine, ist not op, and just because the same 2-3 People, mainly squig herders, are crying in every thread again and again it doesnt make it op!

[Lektroluv]

If you have a SH lvl 37, you must be agree the Squigh herder damage is a too low damage output right now, just a kill shot stealer with many pathetic hits in low amount of time and which lose all damage each time he face somebody with a minimal amount of armour, or theyr disturbing dependance of moral 2 for make any type of minimaly decent burst.
I have one 40 and 65 renow, and i know it is not an equipment, stats or lack of renow points problem... and since the pet nerf and fixes, the influence of the class in scenarios is low or none.

I don't agree with your premise. Squig is not a burst dps class. They only had that option because pets were broken.
WE, WH, WL, BW, Sorc <- proper burst classes. You die in a rotation.

SH is a mobile ranged pet class, which means you kite and grind people down. The WL is your counterpart to mobile dps, but because they're melee, they're allowed to do burst. SH shouldn't, they have the luxury of playing smart and staying safe while dealing damage. Could they use some buffs? Some, probably. But I see quite a few good squigs that have learned how to play and make Order cry about OP squigs as well.

I could be agree with that if those classes were the only ones with burst damage, but i can't be agree since the moment when a enginer can do 900 autoattack + focused fire 910 + Snipe 2,6k + turret attacks + hollow points and kill you in 2 abilities (focused fire and snipe with moral 2).
Or Shadow warriors with 4k fester arrow + some other ability.

In the current system, the SH is the ranged damage dealer with less burst damage of everyone, BW,Sorc,enginer,magus,shadow warrior.

About mobile ranged pet class, sounds nice, but now with enginers doing one kill rotation on you in 2 seconds from 150-210 feet range when SH abilities are 100 feet range, with Shadow warrior using range knowdown, with BW using ranged knowdown and with the new WH using the granted snare... the mobility is the biggest vaporware word in the mmorpgs.
I don't include White lions anymore, since pounce finaly is something you can deal with and it is not gamebreaking.

I don't think Squigh herder should have BW or Sorc burst damage, but either should enginers have it and staff gave them that burst damage with more than 2 times Squigh Herder range.

Why not a bump, why SH must have that crap burst? i am not talking about double theyr damage, but a small % bump in abilities and making Rotten Arrer deal corporeal damage instead of physical one??
Why enginer gun turret have 70% of mele + range weapons DPS, and spiked pet only has the range dps weapon. It is because gun turret can reach 140 feets and spiked pet is only 80 feet range? doesn't make sense either, bigger contibution in a class with longer range.
Why can't all SH pets and SW instanceds grant autoattack on movement? we are forced to only use one type of pet, if we want that autoattack, we are the movility classes, yes or no?

Nope i don't think the movility is a reason, at least in the current state of game with SH only using 100 feet abilities, and i don't think SH and SW are really receiving any mayor buff from theyr pets and instanceds, if we compare them, whith what enginers and magus receive from theyrs turrets-daemons.

Not talking about a full change of class:
Small improvement in class abilities damage, not pet ones (15%?)
Give back 100 feets to Spike pet and let him use 70% of melee + ranged slot weapons dps (right now only use range one and it is 80feet range)
Change Rotten arrer DoT damage to corporeal instead of physical
Giving autoattack on movement buff to the owner by all pets, so we are not stuck to use only Spike one, and allow us to use gas squig or extended range one, withouth lose the autoattack on movement if we want to.
Make the extend range pet buff at least extend a 25% abilities, not a simply 10% like it does now ( abilities passing from 100 feet to 125, is not breaking game and even Shadow warriors will have more chances to use the fester arrow with 125 range)
Give Squigh Herder a tactic for skip resistances with poison arrer , same as SW is doing with Fester Arrow.
Improve the direct damage and elemental damage dot on exploding arrer ability (325 damage damage over time over 9 seconds? really?)

Small minor changes, which at least make SH more competitive, not a running anoying thing, which does nothing and only steal kills.

Out of curiosity, did you ever make a balance proposal? I read a lot of posts of you that the sh damage bugs you. So why not do a proposal how to solve that? It pretty much helped me with my WH problem.

Yeah i did a proposition for Poison arrer 2 weeks ago, i think it was closed because it was done in the wrong forum section.
I made some other proposals to one member of the staff in private mensages too, but will do other time in the correct section of forums in the future.
And will be balanced changes, not groundbreaking-gamebreaking like the ones made on enginer, 32 disrupt-dodge, 40% extend range, 40% damage, and those nonsense too powerfull changes.

[Blasio]

Sorry for gloating but: sweet destro tears nom nom.

Sorry again I know its not helping.

So I just want to say it was mentioned before that you should analyze and understand the data the sc provides. As it seems the usual setup was set: at least 1-2 more healer(s) on destro side.
Only this time order players recognised the only chance they had if they stood next to Bugmans fine booze. It is entirely possible to get this numbers, however its a really rare occasion you experienced.

We could also talk about DoKs topping scenario healing AND damage at the same time. I see it sometimes but I guess its similar like this. Though im not sure Ive never played doks and am not a big theorycrafter.

[Glorian]

Result of SC is incomplete.
No info on Order Healers, they should be down there somewhere.

Also to know: I have seen also seen crazy numbers on Engi Healing.
I was in an SC and I'm heav into tinkerer.
And then there was this other Engi.
But had also this Renown Ability which heals you self and removes all Dots and Hexes from you.
At the end of the SC he was in lead by at least 40% and I SPAM the Keg like mad.

So I dont how that Renown Ability is calculated in the SC Result.
Total removed Dots? Total healed Dots?
Because if you have 6 on you and you remove them and Heal you for each one there can come quite a sum together.

[Nirawen]

No but it is not possible, they are chialent every time ....
Of memory I see no Post of order with the pictures of the person who sees a Dok with as much damage as Heal, a Magus with three times more damage than everyone etc etc
As soon as there is a small difficulty, go a little message to ask for the nerve ....

After a while you did not wonder if your heal or you were AFK? If there had been a good targeting assist on your side? You have to know to question when you lose a scenario ...


The order was simply adapted with what it had opposite. I think it played the cell that's all. After you have not found the solution ... hours that at each sceenario lost there is not a post that claims nerve ....

We should play naked, without tactics, without arms soon ...