[Feedback] Engineer / Magus Changes

[Karast]

Sniper has taken some hits but I don't feel I can argue with the end goal of the changes and I do not think that the devs are going to stop anytime soon.

Procs had to be adjusted and they will continue to be adjust because they were / are simply a bit out of line.

As was the way BoC / Snipe was working with the super range. If it were possible I am sure the devs would have reduced the range on these abilities, but due to current limitations they couldn't. If that changes in the future we could see the return of the 5s snipe / BoC, I am sure.

I am also sure that they are going to continue to work on other careers, and some of the overall mechanics that are causing issues.

Sometimes people overlook the fact that the best way to help engi / magus, might have nothing to do with engi / magus, and more to do with bringing certain tactics, and abilities down on other careers. If BW / Sorc are ridiculously better than the other RDPS, is it the other dps that need to be changed? Maybe, maybe not.

To be honest I may not be the most impartial engi out there, probably far from it. I love the career, always have, always will, and even if no changes where made and every other career got super buffed. I'd still be playing it.

My position right now is that while the changes were a nerf in some regards, they have put people onto a better rotation and play-style that many ignored for using snipe rotations, and the effectiveness of grenade and tinker have really improved.

[Azarael]

You could use alot of the same arguments that got festerbomb nerfed against the added range of engi/magus burst. Large damage reduction abilities being more of a staple in wars meta than any other. Putting the majority of a classes damage outside of one of the most common of these is massive. In many situations you have practically doubled the dps of a spec. Really the range buff is the moment I just gave up on this game ever being balanced.

If we're talking about people who don't have a clue, I'd put you front and centre after your cute little comments about WP/DoK and your spiel in the AM/Shaman topic. He edited his post fml

The argument against Festerbomb was that it was not possible to see it coming before being smacked down with a single hit for ungodly damage. That doesn't apply to Engineer and Magus for the following reasons:

1) A Festerbomb SW becomes static for however long it takes them to cast Festering Arrow. A Rifle Engineer / Havoc Magus, conversely, IS static.
2) The Rifle Engineer / Havoc Magus must remain static for 16 seconds to get the maximum benefit and can be ruined by losing the turret. The durability of the turrets was significantly reduced recently.
3) The Rifle Engineer / Havoc Magus communicates its nature through the turret or daemon it is using, in contrast to the Shadow Warrior.
4) The Rifle Engineer / Havoc Magus does not inflict 4-5k damage in a single hit, it deals damage over multiple hits. That means that detaunts are still valid against some of the attack after it's begun.
5) The Rifle Engineer / Havoc Magus don't outright ignore armour and resistance.

All this is is the usual sodium because a gameplay element has a response other than "reaction detaunt" and doesn't fit your regimented idea of how the game should play. The spec is a static spec. Static specs require range to work. Yes, if you choose to be in LOS within the 101ft-140ft ring of a static class that has been so for 16 seconds, then you should take damage for it. Yes, this is completely preventable on your part. No, I will not wreck the spec because you don't like it.

[Panzerkasper]

Yeah well, everything has resulted in the Order rdps duckfest we have atm. GJ

[Azarael]

Yeah well, everything has resulted in the Order rdps duckfest we have atm. GJ

Fun fact: if a class is underperforming I will bring it up to the level of its peers. If the other RDPS were overperforming relative to melee, that sure as hell ain't my fault. And still the only suggestion we've had to address the RDPS v MDPS issue is "Nerf all RDPS damage by 40%." Good work, lads.

[bloodi]

I still have to see a proper argument as to why Rdps is much better than Mdps, a lot of people throw it out and never back it up, to me the only place rdps have an advantage is massive orvr fights, while they suffer in small scale and mdps have the upper hand there.

[Azarael]

MDPS are much more vulnerable to compositional issues in small scale (lack of Guard / abundance of enemy RDPS). This is something I am looking into.

[bloodi]

MDPS are much more vulnerable to compositional issues in small scale (lack of Guard / abundance of enemy RDPS). This is something I am looking into.

But that goes both ways, a rdps also cant kill anything by himself if there is guards and healers on the other team. Nor he should.

If you are going to start balancing around situations where people are gimping themselves by not running a proper comp or running solo then we are betraying one of the principles you stated on the balance threads.

[Panzerkasper]

MDPS are much more vulnerable to compositional issues in small scale (lack of Guard / abundance of enemy RDPS). This is something I am looking into.

Serious? Every rdps has defensive tools (order better then destro) and some of the most annyoing premades i had to fight against on this server so far were the range kiter groups.
The utility the rdps have in comparison to their damage is the biggest issue here.

[Telen]

1) You're speced to be static as a FB SW putting 18 points into one tree. Any magus can pull out any demon.
2) Ive played the spec once you have the demon up its not difficult to use redeploy to keep stacks up. Many situations in rvr you can be out of reach anyway.
3) Anyone whos played any of the classes can spot a spec they dont need a dayglo pet.
4) Its not limited to a maximum once every 60s seconds either.
5) On a single ability. Proper festerbombing depends on linking cooldowns morale and fell the weak in. Range ignores detaunt on all major rotation abilties. Well unless youre one of them as they can still detaunt each other.

[Azarael]

Missing the point. Festerbomb was brought down for effort/reward and counterplay reasons. Festerbomb is a limited duration state with very poor telegraphing. The problem was inability to react to it because it isn't obvious enough. The conditions are m2 and VoN and those are visible to the SW alone unless he is targeted.

The daemon isn't there to remind me what spec the Magus is in. The daemon is there to tell me whether or not he has a given set of buffs active, the mechanic buff tells me how much and the daemon location shows me where he needs to be if he wants to have any kind of usefulness. If that isn't obvious enough for you and a marked contrast with Festerbomb then I don't know what is