Changelog 15/11/16

[peterthepan3]

A good DPS DOK could already easily replace a WE or Choppa in current gear levels; it will be even more viable with this patch. Only problem you'll face is a good tank who can snare/cc you to death, but damage wise a DPS DOK provides more than enough burst via devour essence and procs.

Isn't that a clear sign though that the changes have gone too far? Looking at healing output this whole evening, WP/DOK is still superior to other healers and if DPS wise they can replace WE/WH or Choppa/Slayer, then what's the point of them either?


.

If you're specced strength/melee crit and in the DPS tree - foregoing much of your survivability, and almost all of your healing - why shouldn't you be able to function as a DPS? Heck a well played DPS 2H BO can function as a DPS if assisting a marauder in current gear levels. A Choppa or Witch Elf will still be a better choice (especially endgame/later on), but a DPS DoK - in current gear levels - can function just fine (especially when you consider that there is a lack of competition as of late). Witch Elves and Witch Hunters require a lot of crit to shine. I already outlined why it is not OP: unlike other MDPS, a MDOK/MWP can be permasnared and abused by a good tank or a ranged comp.

The class has two trees dedicated to melee combat, and one dedicated to pure healing. It ought to be able to perform the role of either DPS, melee heal, or dedicated heal, but never surpass the potential of a dedicated DPS, which is exactly the case. Endgame Mara/Choppa or SL/SL WL/SL >> any DPS DOK/WP comp. If there were more competitive groups around exploiting the weaknesses of the DoK/WP, you would see why they were never taken in a serious endgame group back on live.

tldr; the class was meant to be able to perform the role of either a healer or a DPS, but not both at the same time - which is exactly what these changes have done. Having a 50% heal debuff and an execution is evidence of this. Having variety is a good thing, otherwise we're left with the same old monotonous setups.

[Dabbart]

Internal discussion atm about using Chalice / Book appearance as visual aid when casting Tenacity / Absolution.

Melee power and healing power will convert in next build. Melee crit and heal crit I'm not sure about yet.

Thank you.

[BrockRiefenstahl]

Just my first impression from WP as Melee:

The gameplay is pretty fun BUT very stressfull atm. The depleting of RF is way to fast. I also tried the Tactic with 10 additional RF per builder. But its not working properly. The Divine Assault somehow very often loses/lacks the last 2 healing ticks. (Not sure if its a bug or due to depletet RF or whatever reason) Beside DA + Taunt I have no real defense (T2 atm, but should get better when I get the Dmg+Heal attack)

Now it feels like a real dps in terms of Bludgeon dmg.. But somehow it feels way squishier than the old Melee WP / DoK.

What I feel that really needs a change is the deplating rate of RF. ITs to fast, therefore you are constantly AP starved, due to the need of skillspam (especially when there are not many enemies for using Smite).

(Wrote this in a hurry) If I lack some knowledge, please point out my flaws in logic/experience.

[vouzou]

For first impession from DoK side the Ex mode has fun. You can actually change between melee heal melee dps and backline healer when needed.
Still soul essence managment is pain in the ass now you have 50% less armour and trying to go in combat to hit something to regen it.
One more think i notticed is that Ruin set with mixed stats is better than full Annihilator for purpose of healing and dps.The only thing Annih can provide atm is 5% heal crit. Maybe any thougts of making sets as they where before??
If you don't have mixed stats there is no need to change between Tenacity and Vitality cause you lose a lot of healing and with no Str to provides you the 50% 3 times stackable willpower buff from Vitality it is waste of time. Just stay on Tenacity and heal.
As i said on another thread you guys (devs) are on the right way for balancing Dok/Wp but there are some thinks that need some attention just like the one with the sets i mention before. I am sure more will come during tasting time and finally you can make Dok/Wp class shine again.
So keep on good work and thanks.

[roadkillrobin]

I really like the new WP/DoK changes, but these changes are also making the following classes alot better: SW/SH/Enginner as they are now able to effectivly focus down a DoK/WP from range if they stay in healing stance and if they change stance to get the armor buff, they are gonna be kited and run low on resources really really fast and die due to that instead. Ranged CC is also something thats incredible hard to deal with as a melee healer and probobly needs to be looked at in relevance to these changes.

Also wanna point some stuff out about t1
Covenant of Tenacity/Prayor of Absolution is for min rank 14
Transfer Essence/Sigmars Radience is min rank 30
This means that DOK/and WP needs to have their skills redistrobuted if these changes goes trough or they will have really bad healing potential in t1. I'd sugest swapping TS/SR to lvl 8 and Rend Soul/Divine Assault to rank 30.

[Azarael]

If you don't have mixed stats there is no need to change between Tenacity and Vitality cause you lose a lot of healing and with no Str to provides you the 50% 3 times stackable willpower buff from Vitality it is waste of time. Just stay on Tenacity and heal.

How it's implemented is as an "add from", so if you have 500 Willpower from items, the following happens:

Covenant of Vitality: Str from items +500, Willpower item bonus negated
Proc of Soul Willpower: (Str from items / 2) added for every stack, so +750 Willpower with 3 stacks

In other words, it doesn't matter where your Willpower or Strength are distributed - everything works in the same way, like on RP/Zeal.

[Twyxx]

Playing DoK on ab ex mode was all good and well, just not so great when you're trying to swap to Vitality and smack off a couple Transfer Essences on someone when ya have a horrible ping. Healing otherwise went along just fine

[Karast]

A good DPS DOK could already easily replace a WE or Choppa in current gear levels; it will be even more viable with this patch. Only problem you'll face is a good tank who can snare/cc you to death, but damage wise a DPS DOK provides more than enough burst via devour essence and procs.

Isn't that a clear sign though that the changes have gone too far? Looking at healing output this whole evening, WP/DOK is still superior to other healers and if DPS wise they can replace WE/WH or Choppa/Slayer, then what's the point of them either?

I was hoping that after so many years, we'd finally break the back of a 2xDOK/2xWP meta, but it seems we're just reinforcing it more and more. Just based on this evening's observations though, and these changes need time to be digested obviously and for the player-base to adjust to them, but I'm really nervous about this as I eluded to in a previous post.

It actually feels like DPS doks are much harder to kill now than before, and they were hard enough to kill before in a good premade. I am not liking it so far, but I will give it time to see how it shakes out.

But I can't help but agree with you. If anything this switch makes dok / wp more useful and I can't wait to see someone make a 4 / 2 group with 4 WP / Dok and then 2 tanks.

[TenTonHammer]

A good DPS DOK could already easily replace a WE or Choppa in current gear levels; it will be even more viable with this patch. Only problem you'll face is a good tank who can snare/cc you to death, but damage wise a DPS DOK provides more than enough burst via devour essence and procs.

An alternative perhaps as an "even safer" mdps choice than mara, but i dont feel that the dps output is anywhere close to compare to chop/WE

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

A good DPS DOK could already easily replace a WE or Choppa in current gear levels; it will be even more viable with this patch. Only problem you'll face is a good tank who can snare/cc you to death, but damage wise a DPS DOK provides more than enough burst via devour essence and procs.

Isn't that a clear sign though that the changes have gone too far? Looking at healing output this whole evening, WP/DOK is still superior to other healers and if DPS wise they can replace WE/WH or Choppa/Slayer, then what's the point of them either?

I was hoping that after so many years, we'd finally break the back of a 2xDOK/2xWP meta, but it seems we're just reinforcing it more and more. Just based on this evening's observations though, and these changes need time to be digested obviously and for the player-base to adjust to them, but I'm really nervous about this as I eluded to in a previous post.

It actually feels like DPS doks are much harder to kill now than before, and they were hard enough to kill before in a good premade. I am not liking it so far, but I will give it time to see how it shakes out.

But I can't help but agree with you. If anything this switch makes dok / wp more useful and I can't wait to see someone make a 4 / 2 group with 4 WP / Dok and then 2 tanks.

Question though, are they a "Good" DPS DoK?

I have seen a few seemingly ridiculously hard to kill WPs. But they always were, now they just have a system that actually works. It's the player ability that is driving that. I see far more melee centric WPs simply melt, wail on tanks, of fail to notice a detaunt. And then melt.

Far too little time to know. Honestly, I bet there are a bunch(figuratively, only 118 online in T4 atm...) of WPs that don't even know about the exp mode and are still DPSing...