New Shammy Changes

[Jaycub]

The puddle is one of the biggest reasons you bring AM/Shaman tho. I've been bullied pretty hard for running builds w/o it.

The biggest problem I see with 9pt lifetaps is it would make the DPS trees for shaman/AM pretty much moot, but these changes are obviously to bring heal shaman/AM closer to being "meta" healers. Stuff like DPS can be adressed later?

[Azarael]

If the DPS trees for AM/Shaman are so bad that they'd get destroyed by 9pt lifetaps, then that's their issue, I think.

[Jaycub]

Puddle is mandatory in every build

a 9pt aoe leech would most likely become mandatory in every build (if the middle tree is unchanged)

Nothing in the middle trees really reaches out to you like these would, only thing that come close is the AM healdebuff, and shaman toughness debuff tactic/morale pump. From a healing AM/Shaman perspective there is already little reason to go here aside from the gimmicky ranged aoe punt for keep seiges and certain scenarios like nordenwatch.

[bloodi]

The biggest problem I see with 9pt lifetaps is it would make the DPS trees for shaman/AM pretty much moot, but these changes are obviously to bring heal shaman/AM closer to being "meta" healers. Stuff like DPS can be adressed later?

I dont follow you, how does lowering the lifetaps make the dps tree worthless, if anything it makes it more valuable as you can now run this: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=am; ... 8:;0:0:0:0: You lose the silence for the Gtaoe snare.

If the point is that you would be able to run this http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=am; ... 8:;0:0:0:0: and that would be top tier, i dont really agree, keep in mind that you gain ease of use but if the planned changes go in, you basically are running a heal build that has to cast damaging spells to get improved values and those damaging spells are worthless dots with not benefit, with points into the middle tree you start to see some improved values and you get a spell to push back melee trains and a heal debuff.

Right now, the 13 points lifetap its a thousand times better than DSU/Funnel Essence, its only downside its breaking stagger/root and the 80feet range.

[Jaycub]

On shaman you would be giving up DSU, on AM you are giving up wild healing for an extra DoT?

Not to mention scaling points from mastery tree, magic infusion/Shrug it off aren't exactly awful and neither is funnel essence in some situations.



>you basically are running a heal build that has to cast damaging spells to get improved values and those damaging spells are worthless dots with not benefit, with points into the middle tree you start to see some improved values and you get a spell to push back melee trains and a heal debuff.

The lifetaps from right tree are classified as damaging spells, no reason to use middle tree stuff to build mechanic points on heal AM/Shaman. Unless I am misunderstanding you? You already have aoe punt core to push back a melee train, so does other healers and SM/BO, superpunts as well on other tanks. Healdebuff is pretty moot, meta comps get by just fine without any help from their heal slots in terms of heal debuffs, not that having an extra heal debuff is a bad thing... just not mandatory at all.

[bloodi]

On shaman you would be giving up DSU, on AM you are giving up wild healing for an extra DoT?

With the current Energy of vaul, the ap drain and the fact that every group heal will proc restorative burst guaranteed if you have the 10% heal crit tactic (simple math, 20% crit with 6 targets makes it guaranteed), yeah, i would drop them so hard they will reach the core of the earth in less time that it takes me to lose a SC.

Heal debuffs are king in this game.

Not to mention scaling points from mastery tree, magic infusion/Shrug it off aren't exactly awful and neither is funnel essence in some situations.

At the current moment the only way you will have Magic Infusion/shrug it off is when you have spare points, they are just too bad to use in any other situation. Currently in a long SC i can do 60k of fluff damage and 150k of real heals in a 10 mins sc, so i dont think my heals not scaling is even an issue.

The lifetaps from right tree are classified as damaging spells, no reason to use middle tree stuff to build mechanic points on heal AM/Shaman. Unless I am misunderstanding you? You already have aoe punt core to push back a melee train, so does other healers and SM/BO, superpunts as well on other tanks. Healdebuff is pretty moot, meta comps get by just fine without any help from their heal slots in terms of heal debuffs, not that having an extra heal debuff is a bad thing... just not mandatory at all.

The lifetaps are 40ap if you are running the tactic, thats the same you need for the lifetap dot or radiant gaze, also, Transfer force/Bleed for me is an extra heal and Radiant Gaze for Am is also a 5% crit and damage reduction to whoever you cast it on.

On top of that, it also covers your ap drain and heal debuff from being cleansed. I see no reasons to use single target life taps to get mechanic points, only when they are beneffiting from Mork/Isha they are worth casting at the moment. And this is coming from someone who tried to make that work by dropping all healing gear and going full int, just so lifetaps would be worth casting when they are not being boosted by the mechanic, still not worth it.

The aoe punt is a ranged one, you can punt a melee train out of one of your allies, from far away, that is not to be understimated in a coordinated enviroment.

And trust me, when you are running a group with a engineer and a BW, you will love the fact that you can heal debuff.

[Illiyara]

I'm a bit late to the party, just tried this out on my AM last night and had an absolute blast, both as Isha healer and as a Vaul lifetap spec.

I find a lot of the feedback here very puzzling. People complaining about no instant (useless) heal, really?? You aren't going to build 5 force as a healer except in situations where you weren't needed to heal anyway. And as a dps, instant res is nice, yes, but your heals were terrible with divine fury, and without wp, healcrit, and desperation.

With the old mechanic, an Isha healer's ideal play is to ignore the mechanic entirely. At best, an instant lifetap could be thrown in while running, but it had a high chance to be disrupted and probably isn't worth the ap anyway. Almost anything would be better.


My take on the changes:

The empowered lifetap is excellent and fairly well balanced. It's a strong alternative to regular heals when I want to move and when my target is healdebuffed. Let's look at the numbers.

On the conservative side, my empowered lifetap heals for ~1k in 1.2 seconds, at a cost of 30 ap. That's 833hp/s.
To compare, my Boon heals for ~1650hp in 2 seconds. That's 825hp/s. Adding a 30% crit chance(825*(1+0.3*0.5) gets to ~950 hp/s. Let's pretend the target is below 25%, so they get Desperation too, that's 1330 hps under best conditions. Clearly higher than 833hp/s.

But Boon is fragile. Boon requires you to stand still for 2 seconds (or 2+setback time). and Boon's hp/s will be halved if the target is debuffed, which is pretty much all the time when it matters. A 833hp/s lifetap is better than a 665 hp/s (1330/2) boon. And it's usable while moving, usable if your heal target is not in your LoS.

How does that change my gameplay? As an Isha healer, I end up sitting on 5 Tranq most of the time. That's totally fine, but now I'll have 5 mobile, reliable heals when needed, whereas before, I basically had nothing. If I manage to get down to 1 Force, I have a powerful new boost in alternating 1 heal, 1 lifetap, which increases my efficiency. This requires me to pay attention to more things, but rewards me greatly if I do.

As for vaul spec, this obviously is a huge boost.

I can only imagine the lukewarm reception is because people don't want to change their playstyle or don't get it.

[Qwack]

Illiyara: "I find a lot of the feedback here very puzzling. People complaining about no instant (useless) heal, really?? You aren't going to build 5 force as a healer except in situations where you weren't needed to heal anyway. And as a dps, instant res is nice, yes, but your heals were terrible with divine fury, and without wp, healcrit, and desperation."

As a DPSer, Insta Rez is VERY nice, but more than that there was Insta Group Heal and Insta BB. Insta means "On The Run". My Insta Group Heal as a DPS Shaman is 800 for each member, non-crit. Insta BB (about 1100 single target, non-crit) was essential because it could not be setback and lose out on heals. This is not a trifle matter.

[Qwack]

Aza, I really do appreciate the attention being given to Shammys, but I have to say I no longer understand the main goal. I thought the goal was to bring in a Hybrid form of play and not drastically change the way class has to be played. If the LifeTaps now become Heal based that will decimate the DPS Shammy and brings nothing of real value to a Healing Shammy nor does it create a Hybrid approach.

Is the goal to get rid of Healing Shammys and replace them with unreliable LifeTaps? Because I sometimes go full heal on a Shammy and there is no way I would risk my groupmates by trying to move forward and get a Lifetap off when I can sit way back and pop regular heals that can't be disrupted, blocked, or absorbed.

I only consider Lifetaps as a DPS Shammy because I am already forward doing damage, but if you make them heal-stat based this will be a huge nerf to DPS Shammies and Hybrids.

I guess I can go roll an Engi...

[bloodi]

Aza, I really do appreciate the attention being given to Shammys, but I have to say I no longer understand the main goal. I thought the goal was to bring in a Hybrid form of play and not drastically change the way class has to be played. If the LifeTaps now become Heal based that will decimate the DPS Shammy and brings nothing of real value to a Healing Shammy nor does it create a Hybrid approach.

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