Wanting to play BG

[Eathisword]

Anyone else feel like or notice that BG punt is much harder to pull off in terms of getting your target to go in the direction you want compared to knight/ch?

I am going through the exact same motions on BG in terms of punting mechanics as I did on knight (the last class I played fresh in my mind/memory) yet I get different results and feel like there is some kind of huge fudge factor or something with the punt.

On knight snaring someone while I was not snared, getting 5 feet behind them and punting worked nearly 100% of the time, yet it hardly ever works on BG, always seem to veer left/right by a large degree. I mean I guess i could blow KD on someone to guarantee it, but when you shouldnt have to it's a major waste.

Its the same on IB. Punt goes weird direction. When i need to be sure, I have to KD before punt. Maybe its the fact that it punts more in a straight line and has less ''airtime''. I always blamed it on latency above 100. Sometimes 150. Never thought it could be a bug.

[Jaycub]

Another major problem with the punt is the 20 sec cd. The knight/chosen super punt has 10 sec CD which is an obvious major advantage.

2 situation that come to mind would be one where your punt is avoided by the tank/dps, 10 secs to try again isn't to terrible but with a 20 sec CD it is just total failure. IDK how many times ive been yelled at to punt someone but its lol on CD or not enough hate for it to even matter. If BG had the knight/chosen tactic it would be a mandatory one... which is funny becuase one of the draws to the class many claim is the amazing punt that you get core.

Another situation i keep finding myself in on BG that i wouldn't on knight/chosen is punting a DPS/Healer in to our backlines than being able to quickly follow up punt on his tank if he comes to help.

[Penril]

You are the only destro tank that can reliably get rid of a WL. Use your 5-sec KD on him first (so he doesn't Pounce mid-air) and then punt him so far he will be out of Pounce range when he gets up. If you are 2H then someone else needs to use his KD but since those only last 3 seconds, you have to time it perfectly (pretty much land the KD + punt at the same time) else he will get up and Pounce back mid-air.

Situational? Very. Useful? Hell yeah, your squishy backline will love you. The biggest problem? Pugs giving away immunities.

I do agree that a 10-sec CD on the punt would be awesome. Isn't the IB's 10 seconds?

[Jaycub]

You are punting tanks most of the time, at least I find that anyways. And when you would find yourself in a situation where your need to punt away a DPS to save someone more time than not you are gonna to have other options besides the WL to punt away to save that particular person. Slayer would be a much better option for super punt than WL, if the WL is the only target then you are either up against a very rare 3-2-1 order setups that runs WL or you are just in a **** bad situation to begin with if your group is dying to a wl solo, as if you are in range to punt a WL you are also in range to gaurd and that person can detaunt etc...

IB punt is awful, should get mirrored the BG punt. I think IB is in a worse spot than BG not because its a worse class, but because knight is amazing as pointed out earlier and SM's are doing absolutely insane damage right now cuz lol double spirit debuff and their group utility bringing even more crit via ini debuff etc... Because they have 50% avoidance channel they have the room to spec much more offensively as well.

[Penril]

Sometimes the enemy tanks or other mDPS are immune or have Resolute Defense. Sometimes you face a WL-SW-BW setup. Sometimes you just want to get rid of the WL because he has the nasty armor debuff that is **** up your squishies. Sometimes you just want to troll them (my favorite is superpunting them to the sea in Nordenwatch). As I said, it is very situational. But very useful when you pull it off.

IB punt is not awful. It has a very decent range regardless of how much Grudge you have.

lol double spirit debuff only really benefits other SMs, DPS AMs, melee heal WP (Divine Assault) and WL's with Lionheart. All the other order classes don't really benefit at all. As for Ini debuff, you have a 25% chance to steal 1 out of 6 stats (I have never seen Ballistic being stolen on my BO, not sure if a bug or it was never stolen on live, can't remember) each attack, so basically a 4.17% per attack to steal Initiative. Now, use this calculator (https://tools.idrinth.de/tank/?dN=0&a0l ... s=1&d0pm=0) and tell me how much you can increase your target's chance to be crit at level 40 if you steal, say, 100 Init. Go on, give me an Initiative value and I'll do the calculation for you. Ini stat is NOWHERE nearly as OP as it was in T3 (much less T2). SM is really overrated atm. Also, IB's outgoing hd and snares are uncleansable by Dok which is the most popular destro healer. In my eyes, IB > SM (but yeah, BO > BG).

[Jaycub]

I guess I was wrong on the IB punt, it's not awful but idk it's just not on the same tier as the good guard breaking punts.

I've finally made it to 40 on my BG, and spent more time than I have ever thought talking about how to make it work for our comps on destro in TS.

I am trying to find what exactly BG is bringing to a party, so far I feel like it is strong single target debuffs that are very damaging to healers in particular. Now in a perfect world where you can set your melee train on a healer and take advantage of those debuffs things seem to work out fine. Unfortunately this isn't always going to be the case, and in the melee train brawl i feel like BG is vastly out performed by BO/CH in this.

BO is bringing the mandatory AoE snare that is keeping the blob in check and counteracting the knights AoE snare, stat steal and burst from skull thumper. Chosen is bring the auras, crippling strikes to gaurentee an outgoing damage debuff which against slayers is extremely strong as ID just washes away challenge. Chosen is also bringing the 10 sec CD super punt allowing them to control the fight, drop a gaurd for a few secs, or save someone.

And of course both of these classes are bring morale pump which allows them at the very least to have bellow if not ID up every minute which, both being essentially a get out of jail free card, and if you are running double dok than that's 4 oh **** buttons every minute you can drop as a group.

There is also a convenience factor to CH/BO that BG lacks in that their ability to apply these important debuffs are general on low CD, Procs, and tied to AoE abilities. All of BG's important things require mechanic to be a certain threshold, they have longer cooldown (punt anyways) and they are single target and requires you to be in melee range to use. The biggest thing here being the outgoing healdebuff, a very strong ability but ultimately worthless if you can be on their healers, not having rage or dealing with long CD on your punt can be the difference between winning in losing in some cases. Getting the most out of crush the weak requires constant re application on the other teams DPS, all the while making sure everything else is going smoothly.


It seems to get the most out of the class you need to play the class at an extremely high level which IDK if i want to put the time into, and even if I get there I just don't see it being as good as your average player on a BO/Ch.

Like you said penril, can't look at balance in vacuum just hoping that through some changes whether they be to morale gain or how certain stacking mechanics work or to the classes themselves BG finds itself fitting in somewhere because right now I just don't see it.

[peterthepan3]

BG literally needs a more easily accessible AOE snare and a version of the SM's WODS when in 2h and we're good to go!

[TenTonHammer]

BG literally needs a more easily accessible AOE snare and a version of the SM's WODS when in 2h and we're good to go!

Blade of Ruin and monsterous ruin or atleast the for former also needs to be buffed

And more importantly mara needs to stop shitting all over BG's debuffs, if maras stopped making a large majority of bgs kit from being redundant then it would go a long way to making bg viable

In relation to KOTBS/CH superpunts, i feel the tactics should only inc the punt distance not also reduce its CD to 10s

[footpatrol2]

In relation to KOTBS/CH superpunts, i feel the tactics should only inc the punt distance not also reduce its CD to 10s

I disagree. It should include the cooldown.

[TenTonHammer]

In relation to KOTBS/CH superpunts, i feel the tactics should only inc the punt distance not also reduce its CD to 10s

I disagree. It should include the cooldown.

Because KOTBS and CH are totally not the top tier tanks in this game, that are soo strong their mandatory in every party and in in not way needing the nerf hammer.

Additionally having a tactic thats soo good its basically mandatory on every CH or KOTBS, one that turns the only thing remotly mediocre about them; their meh punts into the shortest cooldown super punts in the game while have no requiremnts or resource cost is fair and balanced in your eyes?

Thats good to know