Overarching balance changes

[peterthepan3]

The only thing I could really think of was potential problems with bomb groups and close quarters. But I don't see why it would be any harder to counter than punting a tank away from an MDPS (like a guarded slayer at full rage)...

Maybe change the numbers of the armor increase/cast setback then. Other than that it seems like a pretty solid idea imo and I honestly think it would scale just fine if implemented correctly.

Rdps as archetypes works perfectly fine atm. What people here are talking about is that they suck in context of 6v6 wich the game isn't ballanced for. Once you scale the fights up to 12v12 or higher rdps classes becomes ALOT better. The Magus and Engineer are underperforming. But thas to do with their clumpsy mechanic and has nothing to do with their archetyrpe as rdps

We get it: you don't like 6v6.

Classes should be balanced around 6v6, 12v12, 24v24, etc. My point is classes should be able to excel in all of these sizes. Why do you show particular disdain towards those who have already proven that the game was - at the very least - supposed to incorporate some 6v6 elements? Heck check some class abilities (top of my head, Magus Demonic Withering tactic that gives 15% damage to a single target) are specifically designed for small-scale. We get it that you don't want classes balanced for 6v6 and would prefer 12v12 (aka something that nobody even does....), but a lot of people disagree.

[roadkillrobin]

No Im stating a case that the game has never been ballanced for 6v6. I got nothing personal against it. Im just trying to explain why things are the way they are and how the scaling would go nuts if devs would suddenly start to actually ballance the game around 6v6. We got just tons of implications that 12v12 and Open World PVP been the anchor of ballance. While the opposition basicly havn't presented any kind of valid implication that the game actually are or have been ballanced for 6v6.

[grumcajs]

Classes should be able to be viable in all grp aspects of the game (even 6v6) in ideal world.

Problem is how the hell to actually do it. I mean there would have to be "nerfs" in some time to achieve it. I do not mean nerf the class as overal at all. But if you boost 1 class to be able to be viable in smallscale it would affect also othat parts of the game and the class might get unintention boost in some of these situations.

@Crymoor

your proposed change seems (to me) ok. But rather instead of 35% chance to be crit it would be better maybe to increase crit dmg taken. Its not the crit rate that gives BWs massive burst. Its the additional 100% increased crit dmg.

also that meltdown/dhar wind seems nice. It would actually give BW/sorc ability to increase survivability while focused. Though 10 sec is way too long. 5 sec should be enough for that massive reduction in inc dmg. Giving tanks enough time to swap guard and BW/sorc enough time to shrug off the initial inc dmg.

It would work in all aspect of game, be it small scale or large scale.

It sounds also good with increased dmg taken while at 100. You deal high dmg but take high dmg too. when focused you can release your mechanic thus making you hit like other magic rdps but massively boosting your survivability for 5 secs to endure incoming assist focus fire

[peterthepan3]

No Im stating a case that the game has never been ballanced for 6v6. I got nothing personal against it. Im just trying to explain why things are the way they are and how the scaling would go nuts if devs would suddenly start to actually ballance the game around 6v6. We got just tons of implications that 12v12 and Open World PVP been the anchor of ballance. While the opposition basicly havn't presented any kind of valid implication that the game actually are or have been ballanced for 6v6.

but people have already proven otherwise, and that it is the best scale to balance from... the server isn't full of lots of WB guilds atm and there are only a handful, meanwhile there are a lot of players playing in groups from what I've seen. so why would you balance around 24v24 when that effectively means anything smaller than that and your class is crap?

[Crymoor]

I thought about that but it seemed better to make it chance to be crit given that BW's/Sorc's have high crit as well, and I didn't want that to stack with bonuses from Choppa, BO, Mara, and WE (which can already kill BWs before they can react). Would probably be a bit absurd for MDPS to be hitting BWs at an 85% crit dmg bonus. Also, I think this will encourage them to use the proposed Dhar Wind/Combustion change! I was leaning towards 5seconds tbh, I agree that is more than enough time to switch guard/focus heal/CC/etc.

[grumcajs]

Idea for AM/sham mechanic

it sounds good in theory
- when u r heal spec, you can bash some instant silence or lifesap
- when in dps spec, you can release some insta grp heal,big heal or res

problem is intelligence/willpower scaling for these abiltiies (not only it makes you hit/heal for laughable dmg/healing but it also means things like lifesap or silence get very often disrupted even on dps classes without any disrupt stacking)

wouldnt be able to somehow change the mechanic to "rp/zeal like" ? I mean :

at 5 points of heal mechanic your willpower bonus is applied also intelligence
at 5 points of dps mechanic your intelligence bonus is applied also to willpower

it would just allow to deal some dmg for lifetap to get some "burst heal" and ability to throw some aoe heal or big heal that would actually heal for more than engi keg.

Tactics would still be there - so with divine fury you will still heal for 20% less and without it you wouldnt get 25% dmg boost so it shouldnt be unbalanced in my opinion.

[roadkillrobin]

No Im stating a case that the game has never been ballanced for 6v6. I got nothing personal against it. Im just trying to explain why things are the way they are and how the scaling would go nuts if devs would suddenly start to actually ballance the game around 6v6. We got just tons of implications that 12v12 and Open World PVP been the anchor of ballance. While the opposition basicly havn't presented any kind of valid implication that the game actually are or have been ballanced for 6v6.

but people have already proven otherwise, and that it is the best scale to balance from... the server isn't full of lots of WB guilds atm and there are only a handful, meanwhile there are a lot of players playing in groups from what I've seen. so why would you balance around 24v24 when that effectively means anything smaller than that and your class is crap?

No, theres been no kinda proof at all that holds up.

And I explained how as you add more players the damage increases while defensive stats, group buffs and groupheals don't increases making 6man groups a horrible anchor for overall ballance of the game.

[grumcajs]

I thought about that but it seemed better to make it chance to be crit given that BW's/Sorc's have high crit as well, and I didn't want that to stack with bonuses from Choppa, BO, Mara, and WE (which can already kill BWs before they can react). Would probably be a bit absurd for MDPS to be hitting BWs at an 85% crit dmg bonus. Also, I think this will encourage them to use the proposed Dhar Wind/Combustion change! I was leaning towards 5seconds tbh, I agree that is more than enough time to switch guard/focus heal/CC/etc.

yea. thats true. increased crit dmg taken is kinda overkill. not only for mdps with crit dmg tactic but it would allow sorc/BW to instakill their counterparts even without BB, WoP rotation. Also rdps with UF up would just 1-2 hit BW/sorc.

[roadkillrobin]

Tbh reducing armor and resistance for Choppa/Slayer makes no logical sence. Why should armor and magic gems on rings etz be more fragile coz the character gets less carefull by going Berzerk. Reducing Initive by 50% would make more sence tbh.

[grumcajs]

Tbh reducing armor and resistance for Choppa/Slayer makes no logical sence. Why should armor and magic gems on rings etz be more fragile coz the character gets less carefull by going Berzerk. Reducing Initive by 50% would make more sence tbh.

I think its meant like when you focus on killing thinkgs, you kinda get reckless and do not pay attention to you defense thus you get hit more harder. And by reducing your armor and resists while on berserk actually make it possible.

Only other choice I think would be to reduce toughness but choppas and slayers do not run with tank like toughness to actually (more like no toughness at all thanks to str+ws-tough tactic) make the tradeoff for 50% dmg boost