Overarching balance changes

[roadkillrobin]

Sorc are defintly easy to kill. Bw with knockdown, self cleanse and armor buff, not so much

Sorc and SH would prob be easiest classes in the game to kill.

[Valfaros]

Well I think the bw/sorc is totally okay now (with this being said the bw is still is the best performing rdd there is so either every other rdd gets to be tuned up or he needs to get tuned down) but will be overperforming with later equipments. We know that from live and we know that the developers were about to chance the mechanic (wanted to chance the mechanic so that the dmg would increase with higher RR).
The problem with dmg modifiers is that they perform better with better equipment so the higher the bw rises in equipment/RR the more dmg he does compared to other classes. So you either balance this over equipment and put other classes (which lack in dmg modifiers) more stats on their sets or you chance the mechanic so it doesn't invole dmg modifieres which other classes have a lack of (well or give other classes also dmg modifiers).
I would recomment to chance the mechanic alltogehter to something else and chance skills so they are close to the numbers now or atleast couple the recieved dmg the bw gets to RR like the devs on live wanted to do it.

[grumcajs]

ok sorry. I had no idea I can play my choppa without guard and survive when focused even without heals and cleanse ...

Nice strawmanning

sorry but when I post all things die when focused without guard, heals and cleanse and you post armor tactic for slayer and self punt that get you out of guard range and solo WH/WE parry build...

[grumcajs]

Sorc are defintly easy to kill. Bw with knockdown, self cleanse and armor buff, not so much

these tools are great for solo. wont save you from melee train on your ass. and that armor buff isnt that great at all

[sanii]

sorry but when I post all things die when focused without guard, heals and cleanse and you post armor tactic for slayer and self punt that get you out of guard range and solo WH/WE parry build...

Slayer armor tactic is VERY much used , Choppa DOES have more armor then casters , i didn't mention any self punts and WH/WE don't need a parry build to have a high parry chance compared to casters.

Sorc and SH would prob be easiest classes in the game to kill.

SH has an option to take detaunt tacitc which stacks with guard (and can kite miles better).

[roadkillrobin]

Sorc are defintly easy to kill. Bw with knockdown, self cleanse and armor buff, not so much

these tools are great for solo. wont save you from melee train on your ass. and that armor buff isnt that great at all

No robe classes survive being melee trained, But BW is defintly not the one hardest ones to keep up.

[Sigimund]

BW/Sorc are in an interesting position. It can be a difficult class to play and the mechanic downside veers wildly from deadly to irrelevant depending on the situation.

It is undeniable that there is a lot of fear of this mirror. There is only one resistance that each side will bother stacking, Geni even had to defend putting resistances other than corp/spirit on the sets. Enemy does not have a dedicated alert for telegraphs from any other classes.

The point is well made that peak damage might be high but base and even average damage is low. Perhaps changes to make BWs perform more evenly at different scales (solo/6v6/wb) and less situational? Some of the ideas Penril referred to sound promising.

[grumcajs]

sorry but when I post all things die when focused without guard, heals and cleanse and you post armor tactic for slayer and self punt that get you out of guard range and solo WH/WE parry build...

Slayer armor tactic is VERY much used , Choppa DOES have more armor then casters , i didn't mention any self punts and WH/WE don't need a parry build to have a high parry chance compared to casters.

yep. self punts were mentioned few secs later by other guy. sry for that

armor - against physical dmg
parry - against physical melee dmg from the front (and when not specced for that its what? about 15-20% that gets reduced by enemy strength?)

still all true.

or we just asume there isnt any armor dmg dealer or rdps out there to hit them?

and as I asked - are you guys still talking about this only from PM 6v6 and nothing else at all?

[sanii]

No robe classes survive being melee trained, But BW is defintly not the one hardest ones to keep up.

Well it also stems from the fact that knights are also better suited to pair up with squishier comps as you also have the heal buff tactic , and destro has access to their morale 4 defenses , but those take some time to wind up.

[sanii]

or we just asume there isnt any armor dmg dealer or rdps out there to hit them?

There are ways to itemize for resistance that aren't exclusive to any class thats why i don't mention them anymore.

Choppa is squishy, WH is squishy, SW is squishy .... all things die without guard,heal and cleanse when focused.

trying to argue BW are squishy is kinda meh

+

and as I asked - are you guys still talking about this only from PM 6v6 and nothing else at all?

I think most people here argue about stuff that goes from 6v6 up until 24vx , what i wanna say is that it is IMPLIED that classes and groups are played properly with guard in any "relevant" sized environment. Also sorry for the slight Omnislashing.