some feeling about classes

[mohokoner1]

hello... well i will try to be fast... i will talk about destro side since i haven't rolled order...

i am not interested to talk about balance between (mirror) classes or whatever though i think there are some big losers and winner when things come to classes... how? well...

first of all i think that we all agree on the fact that WH is a teambased game... right? ok, some classes might be able to do some solo BUT this is not the rule... Sc's, RvR, even exp grinding require grps in most cases.

i just feel that some classes do NOT bring anything special in groups so they have a disadvantage when comes about organised groups.

for example see Squig Herder:
No groups, no group buffs, no Aoe (just one ability + Run n Shooting from Quick shooting tree that requires a tactic slot for it with 30% damage less). yes i know that SH can deal tonz of damage single target but nothing really that a Sorc can't do.


Shaman:
he's missing Aoe Heals, (the single target heal abilities are great BUT when it comes to groups some more Aoe heals always are great), his group buff has nothing to give for real, zealots can give that buff too, plus chosen auras.


Blorcs & BG's:
nothing unique, everyone can be guarded by any other class while his group buffs (from war bellows) are situational. Chosen with 3 Auras ON instead of just one War Bellow will always be better when it comes to groups. Guard is a must on every single tank class though that's not unique on blorcs except probably the mass knock back.


Choppa:
yes i know, he has some minor buffs for like 10-20 second, but the thing is that when it comes to groups he's always depended on being guarded no matter what because of rage while at the same time if he's not using "Path of Da Wrecka" doesn't bring any serious utility in the groups while marauder might be dealing less damage (but sustained) he's tankier, the grab brings more utility in the fight (grab that healer or that BW here and job done) and the damage is more sustained as it seems while bringing some nice debuffs in the group.


the thing i just wanted to say and correct me if i am wrong.... in an organised group
Chosens, Marauders, Zealots/doks, Sorcs will ALWAYS be first as a choice imho while at the same time they have nothing to be "jealous" over the rest classes. am i thinking something wrong?

[Bits]

I think you are racist against greenskin and your "group" view is standard.

[NeneBigun]

1. Shamans do have a aoe heal at level 20 along with all healing classes

2.The BO is a from line disruptor with more debuff and disruption than Chosen, he reduces armor, gives immunity to group, buff group with bellows and skills. BO is group utility driven
2.1 BG are more focused on specific tanking via guarding with dark protector and buffing the one they are protecting as well as great magic disruption, self healing, self shielding. Really solid in 2v2's and 3v3's take more building to get into 6v6's and wb vs wb

3.Most Melee DPS depend on being guarded some more than others, I agree the buffs are nothing majori considering slayer get a atk speed increase tactic as long as berserk by a whole 50%, they also get a huge crit damage increase, huge str stat growth and other stuff compared to choppa. Path of wrecka is a path for premades, its utility is amazing being a mobile rift. While choppa lacks group utility compared to Maruder, his whole point is his burst, marauder cannot sustain the amount of damage output as a choppa, with that being said i cannot agree or disagree mara ise more useful than choppa. The buffs arnt that good and me personally i only use tha ttack speed buff the other ones share no actual value.

-For the most part to stay on subject you are correct, someone will choose a chosen,maru/zealot/Dok and a BO(not so much a sorc) over the others. But each calss unique even to it's mirror and valuing that uniqueness and synergizing it with your team make up is what really makes that class or classes good. 1 class should not be de-valued because they cannot do what another can. As id rather take a BO into battle over say a kotbs anyday, and to ahve a Bo and Chosen is near standard in most 6mans

[Panzerkasper]

Shaman has just grp heal to offer, but his burst heal with up to 3 hots an ok absorb shield and a huge is unmatched in my opinion. And a well played shaman is much harder to catch and bring down then a zealot.The only bad thing about him is his mechanic wich is actually useless, because you rarely have the time to make use of it.

Choppa is a linebreaker. He needs a guard tank ofc, some off-Tank (Chosen with AP Aura) and just keep Pressure, direct or indirect, on the healers with his high dps. But i must say i always liked 2h Choppas more, because the had some more of ability. Stacking outgoing and incoming HD on a healer is quite strong.

[jojomen]

Oh comon, (SM+BO) with heal tactic can make life of healer in team easy paradise - to left him with only focusing his heal in target in most of danger ATM, in same way BG+IB got most of handful pack
BUFFS+dBUFFs - killing with armorDbuff+Hdbuff fastest possible way.
If slayer+chopa gona be More tankier than now -we are doomed for sure - tons of damage that even isnt need to be guarded ? gosh who will stop them "IronSlayers".

[grumcajs]

gobbos are the most annoying little **** things in game (and the most epic classes if you play them ) thought if you are looking for stationary aoe heal/dps you would be better with dok and sorc/magus

BOs are actually pretty good in tank place. Only lacks ST punt but have other tools to help the grp. Not to mention their immortality or nice assist dps depending on spec. Oh and they have ability to kick enemies Right in da Jibblies

choppas are amazing. you do not care about buffs/debuffs etc. you just head to fight and smash things.

If you want more "easy" and new player friendly classes go for chosen, dok, marauder

[Daknallbomb]

nothing uniq on Bo ? -.- I dont wanna run in ovrv into 30 order without bo morale

[catholicism198]

That is generally true- for destro and Order's direct mirror.
The go to premade is Kotbs+wp+bw (1 or more of each) if not more then 1 then it's rp + slayer
You rarely see a premade with an AM or Shaman....or any other careers.

[TenTonHammer]

BO is the hardest hitting tank in the game becuase of tree hit combo/gork smash/ stab you goodder, has a 30ft AoE snare that is on a 5s CD that perma **** up order melee trains

Morale builder, single target shatter limbs, Da biggest stat steal is very strong and provides a lot of utility, espically once you steal iniative

WAAAAGH! is the highest corp debuff on destro which strongly benefits bomb grps

choppa is squishier but deals around 30% more damage than mara, the problem is not choppa the problem is that mara is 2good/2strok

Chop fasta is an ability that should be reserved for bomb groups due to its low uptime; even without it much like WE's, choppas are good mdps but mara outshines them

Once destroy confidence is nerfed, shamans would be truly viable in 6v6, the problem is that, that kotb's tactic hurts shammy running grps too much

[mohokoner1]

1. Shamans do have a aoe heal at level 20 along with all healing classes

2.The BO is a from line disruptor with more debuff and disruption than Chosen, he reduces armor, gives immunity to group, buff group with bellows and skills. BO is group utility driven
2.1 BG are more focused on specific tanking via guarding with dark protector and buffing the one they are protecting as well as great magic disruption, self healing, self shielding. Really solid in 2v2's and 3v3's take more building to get into 6v6's and wb vs wb

3.Most Melee DPS depend on being guarded some more than others, I agree the buffs are nothing majori considering slayer get a atk speed increase tactic as long as berserk by a whole 50%, they also get a huge crit damage increase, huge str stat growth and other stuff compared to choppa. Path of wrecka is a path for premades, its utility is amazing being a mobile rift. While choppa lacks group utility compared to Maruder, his whole point is his burst, marauder cannot sustain the amount of damage output as a choppa, with that being said i cannot agree or disagree mara ise more useful than choppa. The buffs arnt that good and me personally i only use tha ttack speed buff the other ones share no actual value.

-For the most part to stay on subject you are correct, someone will choose a chosen,maru/zealot/Dok and a BO(not so much a sorc) over the others. But each calss unique even to it's mirror and valuing that uniqueness and synergizing it with your team make up is what really makes that class or classes good. 1 class should not be de-valued because they cannot do what another can. As id rather take a BO into battle over say a kotbs anyday, and to ahve a Bo and Chosen is near standard in most 6mans

sorc can deal nice damage ST and AoE... that's why i mention it... i agree for what you said about blorc but you know very well that this is way hard to sucess in overall in overall specially in big scale fights... yes i know that MDPS are all depended on guard but i think that choppa is much more dependant on guard than marauder or any other MDPS class... though keep in mind i am talking more about organised warbands groups as a first choice... same goes for order but since i don't have ANY kind of experience from order classes i wouldn't like to post for something that i don't know at all...

Shaman has just grp heal to offer, but his burst heal with up to 3 hots an ok absorb shield and a huge is unmatched in my opinion. And a well played shaman is much harder to catch and bring down then a zealot.The only bad thing about him is his mechanic wich is actually useless, because you rarely have the time to make use of it.

Choppa is a linebreaker. He needs a guard tank ofc, some off-Tank (Chosen with AP Aura) and just keep Pressure, direct or indirect, on the healers with his high dps. But i must say i always liked 2h Choppas more, because the had some more of ability. Stacking outgoing and incoming HD on a healer is quite strong.

i play all 3 healing classes, got dok/shaman/zealot... yes indeed has 1 and only AoE heal (Gather around) that ALL healing classes have it... as told before the thing is about 1st choice in organised warbands and he can get a tactic for a chance to give a minor heal to others but a chance like that can't be considered as a sustained heals... The Resistances buff can be go off by a chosen, or a zealot too...the mechanics used on him imho aren't the best... not only because you rarely have time to use the WAAGH passive, but also the fact that for recovering AP is only by the ability to steal AP from the oponnent wich also has an effect to your gcd and in fact is one of the major abilities on shaman unfortunately.

choppa: if he consumes rage fast = no more damage than everyone else, if he doesn't consume it then it's squishier than everyone else even with guard.... while marauder is tanky on his own and brings tonz of debuffs at the same time and his dps is more sustained.... still i would choose a marauder as a safer solution.... the longer the choppa is keeping his rage he's becomes also a greater danger for the tank too.... while marauder NOT... only this can bring marauder on a better place in warbands as a choice.

gobbos are the most annoying little **** things in game (and the most epic classes if you play them ) thought if you are looking for stationary aoe heal/dps you would be better with dok and sorc/magus

BOs are actually pretty good in tank place. Only lacks ST punt but have other tools to help the grp. Not to mention their immortality or nice assist dps depending on spec. Oh and they have ability to kick enemies Right in da Jibblies

choppas are amazing. you do not care about buffs/debuffs etc. you just head to fight and smash things.

If you want more "easy" and new player friendly classes go for chosen, dok, marauder

i LOVE greenskins and i am addicted to them... though i am talking here about mechanics, what they bring to their brings and if they could be a first choice in warbands.... it's not about having fun or not.... my main is a blorc 40/42, also playing SH/Sham and got also a choppa....but the thing i am thinking isn't about having fun....

nothing uniq on Bo ? -.- I dont wanna run in ovrv into 30 order without bo morale

ye... Bo m3 and m4 really rock the place... keep in mind also that these morales need time to use while anything at least in t4 is happening pretty fast... things here is about safe choices/best use of utility etc. still chosen has the advantage on this unfortunately...

BO is the hardest hitting tank in the game becuase of tree hit combo/gork smash/ stab you goodder, has a 30ft AoE snare that is on a 5s CD that perma **** up order melee trains

Morale builder, single target shatter limbs, Da biggest stat steal is very strong and provides a lot of utility, espically once you steal iniative

WAAAAGH! is the highest corp debuff on destro which strongly benefits bomb grps

choppa is squishier but deals around 30% more damage than mara, the problem is not choppa the problem is that mara is 2good/2strok

Chop fasta is an ability that should be reserved for bomb groups due to its low uptime; even without it much like WE's, choppas are good mdps but mara outshines them

Once destroy confidence is nerfed, shamans would be truly viable in 6v6, the problem is that, that kotb's tactic hurts shammy running grps too much

dude if we didn't had ruin every class by just trying to play them as DPS while they're not... things could be easier...
"Blorc the hardest hitting tank" srsly? go on full tank tank on any tank class and see your dps going to 0... the reason tank classes are called "Tank" is because they raise tanky stats on their own unlike dps that raise STR or INT on every ding.... this story of "when i was playing in live... blah blah blah" at some point must be end.... if you enjoy playing with pugs with your dps healer/dps tank you're free to do it..... still keep in mind that in organised groups this way of playing has no future or at least unless rr gets 100, get proper gear for this kind of play etc etc...

Blorc Dps build works for:
1) leveling faster PvE
2) Solo PVP
in organised Pvp groups the first choice will always be a proper DPS career than a dps tank or a dps healer...


Chop fasta: yes indeed is a great ability, helps sorcs and casters a lot when bombing... thing is that since you're reading in forums (i have seen tonz of posts of you) most people play single target mastery trees... 2w or dh and NOT da Wrecka so no "Chop fasta" but even if this is the case still choppa will NEVER be the first choice over a marauder in organised groups.

i wonder where you saw the "WAAAGH! mechanic of shaman debuffing anyone.... and there's no really time to use for real that mechanic in high scale fights while you have to heal and heal and heal and heal without ending.... still shaman is NOT a first choice healer unlike zealot/dok... 1 zealot and a dok or 2x doks or 2x zealots can bring much more in a group than 2x shamans or 1x shaman and another healing class as a combo....