Countering zerging in T2/3

[Dabbart]

If you can only attack door/engines with other engines/rams, and engines are limited and rams have limited space... You expect everyone else to just stand there?

Not to mention this would mean that you could get a perfect mathematical timeframe for how long it will take to drop a keep door, which would enable groups to bounce zone to zone disrupting attacks quite easily...

Yes, I am aware that is a bit of a conspiracy theory. But I have done timer based tactics in a lot of other games...

[Malgaroth]

@Malgaroth

Its clear we have different pov. Though we agree that 70v30 is pretty much "welcome to our keep, feel free to take it" situation. For defenders it provides just chance to get some kills before they lose the zone.

I think defence might be made easier by making siege engines and doors being able to be damaged only by other siege engines (and doors only by ram). No more just zerg and focus oil, then all focus doors, when oil gets up, fall back, rdps focus oil, rinse and repeat. This might be cool to come with BO importance and 1.4 (or some later patch) where u have siege engine "buff". No buy and carry in inventory. So when enemy ram gets destroyed, they have to send carrier for another ram thus allowing them to be ganked = carrier needs escort = less attackers in keep = higher chance to make some morale push and drive them back. Or maybe even change the speed of the carrier based on aao - more numbers you have, slower your sienge engine carrier will get to a keep.

Just some ideas from my tired mind before I go to bed

See this I can sort of agree with, where instead of debuffing the attackers you buff the defenders/their position but I would take it a step further. Defense is supposed to be skewed towards the defenders. So maybe instead of lowering zerg stats, raise defender stats so long as they're within X range of the Keep, buff could be an aura off the Lord, whatever (while there's AAO of course). Call it something like "To the Last Man", make a heroic last defense possible.

And yeah, I've seen too many people just have the melee pain train hit the door, run back when there's oil, focus down oil, resume PvD. Don't even get the ram just cuz it's a few gold you keep in your pocket, when Choppa labor is free.

[grumcajs]

If you can only attack door/engines with other engines/rams, and engines are limited and rams have limited space... You expect everyone else to just stand there?

Not to mention this would mean that you could get a perfect mathematical timeframe for how long it will take to drop a keep door, which would enable groups to bounce zone to zone disrupting attacks quite easily...

Yes, I am aware that is a bit of a conspiracy theory. But I have done timer based tactics in a lot of other games...

I have posted with BO importance - so others might try to keep BOs under their control when it was mentioned few times. Mdps can bypass, rdps can pew pew rdps and protect the siege engines from push that may come. They can watch for incoming enemy forces. They can help escort the siege engines. There are ways to do. But when players are just used to arrive to keep, select doors as their target and then spam 1 button till it gets down...

Also with BO importance possibility there might be some connection between number of BOs controlled and ram dmg to make calculations on how long it might take to destroy a doors. (Maybe even scale even other siege engines based on BOs or aao)

As I said - just idea. You wanted some idea and not "do nothing" so here it is. Hardly might work, no idea if it actually can be done, just idea.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

If you can only attack door/engines with other engines/rams, and engines are limited and rams have limited space... You expect everyone else to just stand there?

Not to mention this would mean that you could get a perfect mathematical timeframe for how long it will take to drop a keep door, which would enable groups to bounce zone to zone disrupting attacks quite easily...

Yes, I am aware that is a bit of a conspiracy theory. But I have done timer based tactics in a lot of other games...

I have posted with BO importance - so others might try to keep BOs under their control when it was mentioned few times. Mdps can bypass, rdps can pew pew rdps and protect the siege engines from push that may come. They can watch for incoming enemy forces. They can help escort the siege engines. There are ways to do. But when players are just used to arrive to keep, select doors as their target and then spam 1 button till it gets down...

Also with BO importance possibility there might be some connection between number of BOs controlled and ram dmg to make calculations on how long it might take to destroy a doors. (Maybe even scale even other siege engines based on BOs or aao)

As I said - just idea. You wanted some idea and not "do nothing" so here it is. Hardly might work, no idea if it actually can be done, just idea.

Queue the Aladdin "He Can Be Taught!" meme...

See, those are idea's that can be brainstormed. By all means, poke through the Holes that you see. That is why the Dev's let us bicker on the forums the way we do, but when you are seemingly ONLY blasting, it gets hard to even bother to argue/debate with you.

Everything is either a problem or an opportunity. now, it might be an opportunity to get your face kicked in... But try looking for alternatives and solutions. That is after all what we all desire correct? A functional game that has at least 1 if not more kickass PvP system(s) that we can enjoy correct? Let's shoot for that, and not just shoot everything down.

If you haven't, search through Aza's postings. You'll find the thread he was discussing and posting somewhat indepth thoughts and reasonings for the new ORvR system. The overall system change sounds downright weird, but the functionality just might work. Or not, and he'll input something else. Maybe even one of our Plebish ideas:P

[Bozzax]

Fine. In the next patch, the target selector will hit the closest targets.

Exactly why do you want to increase the efficiency of "AOE blobbing" and AOE pull fest?

[roadkillrobin]

Fine. In the next patch, the target selector will hit the closest targets.

Exactly why do you want to increase the efficiency of "AOE blobbing" and AOE pull fest?

To give smaller bombgroups a better chance when facing bigger blobs by removing a rng element.

[Bozzax]

You do realize bigger groups benefit even more from this?

Even more so swing the pendelum in favor of AOE over ST

[Tesq]

And yes, it does sound bad. Sounds like bad design that the "weaker side" should be left in the cold for the larger pop to stride over. A keep is supposed to provide defenses. Defenses that even out numbers. If we can't accomplish that with the keep alone, another system needs to be implemented to provide an incentive to gameplay from the defending side.

war had it we need it back and improved as anything war had in live pre 1.4.0

it's called patrol system.

[Tesq]

You do realize bigger groups benefit even more from this?

Even more so swing the pendelum in favor of AOE over ST

no cos 1 wb will still have 8x tank hit first than anything this is actually a good way to face bigger number and make positionin better. With bigger number and rng you actually couldn't focus your dps and let enemy focus your tank and you where overhelmed by difference in number now positioning matter more.

[roadkillrobin]

You do realize bigger groups benefit even more from this?

Even more so swing the pendelum in favor of AOE over ST

Yes more people attacking same target more damage output same thing aplies to single target damage.
Thats were positioning and terrain advantage comes into play.

And single target still gonna be superior in small scale so whats your point?