A different kind of Bias

[Deadpoet]

Pounce has been discussed extensively in a recent thread in this forum, but in this post I just want to
offer some reflections that involve pounce but have a wider, more comprehensive approach.


1. Complaints about pounce usually come from a 1v1 context.
2. Complaints are often made by the very classes that rule 1v1
3. ????????

I guess the shamans and herders that are constantly whining in advice chat and general chat in the game can't accept that there is one class they can't simply put DoTs on/set squig on and run away from while they continue chatting/cultivating/picking their nails half a map away. I have a lot of respect for people like Morfee, who play shaman but don't go nuts over pounce as if it was the end of the world.

There are classes your class will have trouble against. And there are mechanisms and sacrifices to be made if you want to counter them. Good players like Mez will make even a sorc stand a fair chance against a WL. There are ways. Some players should be content with being able to own almost any class in the game.

Someone might conclude after reading this that I am writing against destro and in favour of order. That is the big mistake in the approach imho. (If only you knew my opinion on dps AMs for example..)

To my mind all this shouldn't be about order having OP stuff and destro not having it. Many people posting in threads have this approach, and, while I think realm balance must be discussed and can be improved, a different approach should be incorporated into the discussion.

To state it clearly, all this turmoil about pounce (and TE) is yet another symptom of a bias that is not related to realm, but to archetype. When one mdps can negate many of rdps classes advantage rdps will rage and demand nerfs. The fact is many rdps classes on both realms have been negating mdps' (and even some tanks') chance to beat them. We all know what will happen if a mdps or even a 2 handed tank is caught in the open by one of those fire and forget happy ranged classes. Rock Scissors and Papers you will say, but if tanks own mdps, mdps own ….......(not rdps obviously, so?).

To sum up, in any other context that is not a well organized premade, mdps have been suffering, are suffering and will be suffering. Take the typical pug sc, the typical warband, the roaming situations. Mdps are the cannon fodder. No guard, unreliable heals, etc.. While rdps don't need to be in a group to be effective and will get loads of DBs with 0 deaths if only they have the minimum clue about positioning. So, if a WL can pounce non stop, or a mara can pull you, for example, they are the only mdps classes that have such tools to deal with ranged. And particularly in the case of WL with pounce, no matter if you can pounce out of trouble (which isn't always possible), Wls have to place their balls at less than 5ft from the enemy to apply their rotation. RISK vs REWARD. That is one of the main balancing principles that should be applied in this game. To hear people who can kill their victims casting their DoTs or pets at 100ft distance without even having to worry about properly kiting, or who can KD people from the distance in addition to a whole array of cc abilities (yes SWs), to hear hose people whining about one mdps that can't be ganked with impunity is simply surrealistic.

[szejoza]

You can have my beer!
at last a voice of reason!

[Liandel]

....and my axe!

I could not agree more with the sentiments in this thread. Everything is true.

To be honest, until RR caps raise or some form of trivial blows are brought into the game, PUG/unsupported MDPS will be total and complete cannon fodder.

Thank you for your voice of reason.

[notagain]

Yes, thank you.

If a WL jumps into the middle of a group of destro and they can't work together and assist to bring him down or mitigate it in some other way then they're bad. You have roots, snares, staggers, knockdowns, punts, and slows. Use your abilities and position well in fights instead of rushing to the forums to complain because you got killed by a thing.

IF you're asking for balance changes because of how 1v1 matches play out, you must realize this game is built and balanced around group play. In RVR ranged is incredibly effective, in scenarios the melee dps train is incredibly effective. But an organized mdps train can still be great in RvR, and ranged comps can still be effective in scenarios if you play your class well. And before people start complaining about having to face premades and more organized groups, please realize that in a game like this, organizing is a skill just like sick gameplay mechanics. So get yourself a group to play with. The game is way more fun when you play it the way it was meant to be played.

[TenTonHammer]

punts/KBs dont work vs WL

No other class in the game can ignore an entire subsect of a specific factions defensive tools......excpet for maybe WH/WE but that self punt ability has a CD

[bloodi]

No other class in the game can ignore an entire subsect of a specific factions defensive tools......excpet for maybe WH/WE but that self punt ability has a CD

And anyone who is ranged but hey, that doesnt sound as cool as what you wrote.

[TenTonHammer]

Technically yes, but if you punt a ranged character then get punted away; like off a clif, they cant leap back in mid air effectively negating the action in the first place...except SW self punt

[jonspidy]

Yea, but thats not the only option. You could still use a KD, Disarm, or champ challenge.
There's multiple ways of dealing with the WL. I cant tell you how many times ive pounced in and got KD'd almost instantly and burst down. And yes, not every class has a KD or a disarm but lets remember this isn't a 1v1 game.

[Vigfuss]

Playing rdps is probably the best choice for playing solo or small man. That's probably a bit easier for Order, but the SH & Shaman have it pretty good IMO.

[nydig]

I always laughed when range complain about how hard it is for them. I can remember talking to so many bw and sorcs who would argue that cleanse makes them worthless. How they can single handedly take someone from 100% to 0 in some cases in 1 time stamp but 1 dot cleansed and its gg.

Why do ranged dps have it stuck in their head that if they cant stay safe in the back and solo kill everyone its bad? When melee have to put themselves in danger and have to assist. Even with pounce a wl still has to be in range of all dps and tanks. I cant tell you how many times ill open on anyone as we to have a instant bw and sw rotation on me then have the 4 kotbs that are in every sc just follow me around for the next 15 mins of the sc.

Tl:dr ranged first world problems.