[White Lion] Pounce need a Cooldown

[Liandel]

I'll give you the morale punt, but WLs also have to burn their charge and feline grace in order to pull people, because they have to provide CC immunity and speed for the pet as well as for themselves, something marauders don't have to do to successfully execute a TE. This leaves the WL even more vulnerable to CC than its counterpart because defensive CDs are already used in order to do basic CC. Therefore, until the pet is changed to not require defensive cds on the part of the WL player, additional CC immunity is completely fair. I'd give you pounce not working midair if fetch applied a temporary speed burst automatically to the pet as well as temporary CC immunity. Ofc it would still be able to be killed, but it wouldn't require using all non-pounce mobility increasing CDs to work effectively.

Morales are another thing entirely, and should always work because they are a min cd.

I think the speed burst is fine. But the CC immunity... how would you interrupt a Fetch then? When a Marauder is trying to pull you, he can be easily interrupted in different ways. Make the pet immune to CC and you efffectively make Fetch undefendable. Killing it is not really an option because if you coordinate with your healers, they can easily keep the pet up for at least a few seconds while it pulls someone (assuming it gets a speed burst + CC immunity).

I'm all for fixing the WL pet though, and making the WL CC more reliable.

Outright killing it is easy. it can still be parried/blocked, and even if you interrupt a marauder's TE, the marauder is free to try again shortly, whereas a WL has to wait 16 seconds to even attempt it again, during which the WL loses 50 percent of its crit damage (that's huge btw, means everyone it attacks effectively has trivial blows), all of its cc, and can't do its burstiest ability (coord. strike). The WL's fetch requires many long CDs in concert in order to guarantee the pet makes it to its target successfully, and the punishment for not succeeding is far steeper than the marauder's. Given how often the pet bugs out, disappears, or simply fails to reach its target I would say CC immunity is completely fair. A sorc doesn't even have to do its full rotation to kill the pet.

The marauder doesn't require any special cc immunities or cds for the tentacle to REACH the target successfully, why should the WL be specially gimped in this regard? The marauder doesn't require healers to use all their best healing cds to protect its tentacle, why should the WL have to have that additional layer of group coordination in order to perform a basic class ability?

If a WL has to coordinate with several other group members (as well as burn minute long cooldowns) in order to do a basic class ability, destro should have to coordinate with their group in order to prevent it from happening. The pet is as easy to kill as any NPC.

[Penril]

If a WL has to coordinate with several other group members (as well as burn minute long cooldowns) in order to do a basic class ability, destro should have to coordinate with their group in order to prevent it from happening. The pet is as easy to kill as any NPC.

Please tell me how can a melee group kill a pet that has a speed burst and is immune to CC before it manages to pull someone. You might have a point if fighting against Sorcs and SHs. But honestly, in that case, you would be already Pouncing on them.

[Liandel]

If a WL has to coordinate with several other group members (as well as burn minute long cooldowns) in order to do a basic class ability, destro should have to coordinate with their group in order to prevent it from happening. The pet is as easy to kill as any NPC.

Please tell me how can a melee group kill a pet that has a speed burst and is immune to CC before it manages to pull someone. You might have a point if fighting against Sorcs and SHs. But honestly, in that case, you would be already Pouncing on them.

If I'm pulling someone, why would I pounce into their backlines to kill them and put myself at unnecessary risk? Fetch pulls the target INTO your group, so there would really be no point in ME pouncing INTO their group, now would it?

Why are you assuming that there are only pure melee groups all the time? Also, all of destro's melee dps can dual wield, so they naturally have a decent parry rate. The pet has lower strength than a player, so its attacks can easily be parried. In open RvR, I see SHs, sorcs, Magus all the time. The game shouldn't be balanced around pure melee train 6v6s. RDPS are a thing that exist, and any RDPS can easily kill a WL pet.

[nydig]

Whether or not you own up to it or not, that was the end result. Don't pretend otherwise.

The ironic thing is all i said was at 40 it might need a change in vent and mursi is the one who posted it and someone else linked my old video, but i get the hate for nerfing the class.

Would hardly call it a nerf anyways the class is still fine. Just hit 40 2 nights ago aw still crits for 1300 wb procs for 300-400 kiss procs for about 150-200 and auto attacks crit for between 200 to 500 and im still in dev gear with the 40 dps sc weapons, with around 850 str. Not what id call great gear.

How hard are mara and choppa hitting at 40?

[Penril]

If I'm pulling someone, why would I pounce into their backlines to kill them and put myself at unnecessary risk? Fetch pulls the target INTO your group, so there would really be no point in ME pouncing INTO their group, now would it?

Why are you assuming that there are only pure melee groups all the time? Also, all of destro's melee dps can dual wield, so they naturally have a decent parry rate. The pet has lower strength than a player, so its attacks can easily be parried. In open RvR, I see SHs, sorcs, Magus all the time. The game shouldn't be balanced around pure melee train 6v6s. RDPS are a thing that exist, and any RDPS can easily kill a WL pet.

I never said you would pull someone and then pounce to the backlines. What i said was:

1) Melee groups won't be able to kill a fast & immune to CC pet before it manages to pull one of their healers.
2) You won't need to use Fetch that much against ranged groups and they won't kill your pet because they will be too busy with you already Pouncing on them. Unless you are telling me that you never pounce on rdps. Which would be a lie (remember i played with you for a few years).

I guess you are talking about RvR (WB vs WB maybe); i'm mostly talking about 12v12 (SCs). I fully agree with you that the Pet needs to be fixed/buffed, and the WL's CC should be not dependant on the pet. But making the pet immune to CC & giving it a speeed burst while using Fetch might potentially make it undefendable. I pointed out that the Mara pull can be interrupted; while you are correct that he can try pulling immediately after, the order player should know by then that someone wants to pull him and get out of the Mara's range.

[Toldavf]

Whether or not you own up to it or not, that was the end result. Don't pretend otherwise.

The ironic thing is all i said was at 40 it might need a change in vent and mursi is the one who posted it and someone else linked my old video, but i get the hate for nerfing the class.

Would hardly call it a nerf anyways the class is still fine. Just hit 40 2 nights ago aw still crits for 1300 wb procs for 300-400 kiss procs for about 150-200 and auto attacks crit for between 200 to 500 and im still in dev gear with the 40 dps sc weapons, with around 850 str. Not what id call great gear.

How hard are mara and choppa hitting at 40?

With everything up?

Generally hits for 4-500ish vs the well protected though.

[Liandel]

If I'm pulling someone, why would I pounce into their backlines to kill them and put myself at unnecessary risk? Fetch pulls the target INTO your group, so there would really be no point in ME pouncing INTO their group, now would it?

Why are you assuming that there are only pure melee groups all the time? Also, all of destro's melee dps can dual wield, so they naturally have a decent parry rate. The pet has lower strength than a player, so its attacks can easily be parried. In open RvR, I see SHs, sorcs, Magus all the time. The game shouldn't be balanced around pure melee train 6v6s. RDPS are a thing that exist, and any RDPS can easily kill a WL pet.

I never said you would pull someone and then pounce to the backlines. What i said was:

1) Melee groups won't be able to kill a fast & immune to CC pet before it manages to pull one of their healers.
2) You won't need to use Fetch that much against ranged groups and they won't kill your pet because they will be too busy with you already Pouncing on them. Unless you are telling me that you never pounce on rdps. Which would be a lie (remember i played with you for a few years).

I guess you are talking about RvR (WB vs WB maybe); i'm mostly talking about 12v12 (SCs). I fully agree with you that the Pet needs to be fixed/buffed, and the WL's CC should be not dependant on the pet. But making the pet immune to CC & giving it a speeed burst while using Fetch might potentially make it undefendable. I pointed out that the Mara pull can be interrupted; while you are correct that he can try pulling immediately after, the order player should know by then that someone wants to pull him and get out of the Mara's range.

Parry and block are both defenses. Killing it also is extremely viable. The pet is not a raid boss, it can easily be killed by one person. Since the marauder is free to try again immediately after being interrupted, that would give the order player precisely zero seconds to find cover or LOS. After a failed fetch, destro has a full 16 seconds.

[TenTonHammer]

With everything up?

Generally hits for 4-500ish vs the well protected though.

no piercing bite?

[footpatrol2]

Archmage Vaul spec--- golden aura tactic Reads : Shield of Saphery will now grant immunity to stun and knockdown effects while active.

Immunity for your pet for fetch... if you want.
Or immunity for clutch situations also on anyone.

Spoiler:

Those set ups I wrote about have more things going on in them then what I actually wrote down. I only highlighted the flashy stuff.

Or dismiss/make fun of this also.

[nydig]

Whether or not you own up to it or not, that was the end result. Don't pretend otherwise.

The ironic thing is all i said was at 40 it might need a change in vent and mursi is the one who posted it and someone else linked my old video, but i get the hate for nerfing the class.

Would hardly call it a nerf anyways the class is still fine. Just hit 40 2 nights ago aw still crits for 1300 wb procs for 300-400 kiss procs for about 150-200 and auto attacks crit for between 200 to 500 and im still in dev gear with the 40 dps sc weapons, with around 850 str. Not what id call great gear.

How hard are mara and choppa hitting at 40?

With everything up?

Generally hits for 4-500ish vs the well protected though.

Nice ya if only WE had a execute ability