[White Lion] Pounce need a Cooldown

[Tiggo]

Add: It enables the WL to freely get in and out of the fight with zero downside. A small cooldown would at least require some commitment and limit the amount of distance a WL can travel in 3 GCDs. Yes it doesn't work on allies there are still plenty of targets

Yeah, i think i mentioned that several pages ago. I find it specially funny when some WL's say a 5 sec CD would kill them. I mean, really... when you pounce on a target in the backline, do you use one skill and then Pounce away? Don't you want to use your armor debuff? maybe a snare, Coordinated Strike, Cull the Weak? By the time you used those, 5 seconds have already passed and you can Pounce away if needed. But anyway, as i said, i don't think a CD is needed since i realized the only thing that bugs me is their immunity to punts/pulls.

its not about jumping back (never did that ever lol). It about the target moving and you land 40ft away from him.

Knock target down on beginning of jump for 2 seconds and im totally fine with a 5sec cooldown on pounce. (personal opinion nothing to do with gm/staff whatever!)

[Shadowgurke]

And whose fault is that?

Really, if the arggument to give pounce a cd is that stupid people give WL a path to escape, then we are done here.

In any given fight there is bound to be a pounce target that gives you a path to escape. Are we gonna act like this is something we can ignore because theoretically 100% of all people involved in a fight could watch the position of 1 WL and play accordingly? At which point are the measures to counter it just too unrealistic to consider? Even in a 6v6 against a coordinated group you can just pounce the healers to get some breathing room. DPS coming for you? Pounce back to the tanks. Let alone your own group making you a path to escape via punts.

Knock target down on beginning of jump for 2 seconds and im totally fine with a 5sec cooldown on pounce. (personal opinion nothing to do with gm/staff whatever!)

No disrespect but this is absolutely ridiculous. That would flat out be a buff to the ability not even mentioning how crazy a 2s KD on a a 5s CD skill is

[Tiggo]

And whose fault is that?

Really, if the arggument to give pounce a cd is that stupid people give WL a path to escape, then we are done here.

In any given fight there is bound to be a pounce target that gives you a path to escape. Are we gonna act like this is something we can ignore because theoretically 100% of all people involved in a fight could watch the position of 1 WL and play accordingly? At which point are the measures to counter it just too unrealistic to consider? Even in a 6v6 against a coordinated group you can just pounce the healers to get some breathing room. DPS coming for you? Pounce back to the tanks. Let alone your own group making you a path to escape via punts.

Knock target down on beginning of jump for 2 seconds and im totally fine with a 5sec cooldown on pounce. (personal opinion nothing to do with gm/staff whatever!)

No disrespect but this is absolutely ridiculous. That would flat out be a buff to the ability not even mentioning how crazy a 2s KD on a a 5s CD skill is

then make it 1s kd and 10s cooldown. or only even root (nonebreakable) 1s and 10s cooldown.

Alternativly: the wl lands there where the target is on landing (like a fireball always hits its target). and do 5s cooldown.

[Nidwin]

I don't know or can't remember about punts but I want evidence, backed properly up, to that pull immunity as I've rifted pouncing out WL back in, in AoR. Liandel can certainly back me up on this but it could be different here in RoR of course.

Same for SW and WH in AoR self-punting away, just in case, you know.

[Penril]

then make it 1s kd and 10s cooldown.

10 secs is way too much. I still believe that IF they get a CD (which i don't support anymore... make them unable to Pounce mid-air!) it should be 5 secs at most. This way, it can still be spammable if there is a SM with Whispering Winds. Or it can be 10 secs if they are hit by Bad Gas/Not in da Face.

0/5/10 sounds about right.

[bloodi]

In any given fight there is bound to be a pounce target that gives you a path to escape. Are we gonna act like this is something we can ignore because theoretically 100% of all people involved in a fight could watch the position of 1 WL and play accordingly? At which point are the measures to counter it just too unrealistic to consider? Even in a 6v6 against a coordinated group you can just pounce the healers to get some breathing room. DPS coming for you? Pounce back to the tanks. Let alone your own group making you a path to escape via punts.

Are we gonna act like positioning and awareness are some kind of outrageous concept that no one ever dared to attempt to implement into his gameplay in a mmo?

Because really, what does the WL do when he jumps into a clump group? Create magical enemies to punce to?

You people insist the only situation that ever happens in a fight is a perfect scene for the WL, you can play around it and can punish him for it, you mistake your desire to not adapt with it being "unrealistic".

As i said i do agree with not letting the jump in midair but think about a cd does for a WL who pounced from afar, you just land in the middle of nowhere, the guy you pounce to is out of range and thats about it.

[Shadowgurke]

Are we gonna act like positioning and awareness are some kind of outrageous concept that no one ever dared to attempt to implement into his gameplay in a mmo?

The equivalent would be raids where a positioning error any single player (not: a specific player) would result in a wipe for the group. That worked out great. It's the exact same reason why you don't see these mechanics any more. While wiping is not the same as the WL getting away, you get the analogy. Punishing you because a (random) teammate made a mistake is bad design and only encourages toxicity.

Because really, what does the WL do when he jumps into a clump group? Create magical enemies to punce to?

Jump healers? Make your tanks punt targets away from the clump?

You people insist the only situation that ever happens in a fight is a perfect scene for the WL, you can play around it and can punish him for it, you mistake your desire to not adapt with it being "unrealistic".

The whole argument is that these situations occur way too often to consider it corner case scenarios- by the same token a WL can decide when to engage and simply refuse to pounce in when the situation is not favorable. Or, in your words, the WLs desire not to adapt does not make the situation unrealistic.

[Bretin]

oh boi another 16 pages about pounce with the same 5 people discussing it. i wonder if this ever stops

[bloodi]

The equivalent would be raids where a positioning error any single player (not: a specific player) would result in a wipe for the group. That worked out great. It's the exact same reason why you don't see these mechanics any more. While wiping is not the same as the WL getting away, you get the analogy. Punishing you because a (random) teammate made a mistake is bad design and only encourages toxicity.

Are you for real right now?

Did you seriously just write this? I suggest you read it again because you basically just told me "punishing people for their mistakes its not cool".

What should we do then? Reward them?

Jump healers? Make your tanks punt targets away from the clump?

What healers? What part of clumped you did not get? The healers are there, thats why its a clump.

The whole argument is that these situations occur way too often to consider it corner case scenarios- by the same token a WL can decide when to engage and simply refuse to pounce in when the situation is not favorable. Or, in your words, the WLs desire not to adapt does not make the situation unrealistic.

The whole argument is that you insist in playing vs WLs the same way you play vs everyone else and when that doesnt work, you come here to get the game changed instead of adapting yourself.

You are playing against a mdps with no healdebuff who is reliant on a pet being alive to do its damage, clump up, destroy his pet and laugh.

[deslage]

"A good SH can kill a WL if they use cc smartly".

So can SW, put to the test with friendly duels. GG pounce that landed to where I was standing before and in range of self KB + aussie lag. Was cake facing Pounce instead of TE. The best mDPS weapon against rDPS is TE, therefore I think it should be SW and not Squig who has the superior kiting tools. Give RUN AWAY! to SW.