HE Bomb/Orvr WL build

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

1) You will NEVER - I repeat NEVER - guard a white lion's pet in any context. By doing so, you are putting at risk an actual PLAYER; by doing so you are not guarding the other MDPS, or guarding the offensive tank.
2) Centuries of training and tearing blade simply don't cut it. Centuries is a decent dot, but a swordmaster can apply that too. White lion is not designed to deal AoE damage, and the aoe that it does can be rivaled/outdone by dps tanks.
3) In any build with the pet, pack synergy is a must: white lion is a burst dps class, not a sustained dps class. Not to be rude but have you played a WL/successfully utilised it in a WB setting with proof?
4) Quit with the '6 man meta' jabs as per every post you seem to make. The meta is there for a REASON: it has been tried and tested by a plethora of different guilds spread across different pvp platforms (6v6 - 12v12 - 24v24 - wb vs wb) and exists for a reason.

I think at this point you should start making a few videos/stream footage of you actually putting all of this theory into practice. I await the results with eager anticipation.

1) Look the group composition would obviously be 2 tanks 1 WL 1 rdps 2 healers. There are currently group compositions that are 3/2/1 at the moment so I don't see why you can't do what I'm talking about.

The range dps doesn't need a guard. Throw some passive hots on the pet, AoE heals heal your pet also.

2) Its not just the centuries of training and tearing blade. Did you not read the post I put up above? Its the combination of all those classes working together to stack damage in one specific location to create the bomb. The bomb isn't tied to just using one class. Probably all those classes I listed would have centuries of training sloted... You do know that centuries of training can stack right?

3) ya you got me I forgot that must have tactic pack synergy. Luckily the must have tactics I said was only 3 which at level 40 you have access to 4 slots. I've played WL's in a premade setting granted its been awhile. I have not played it in the warband setting i listed above. But...why wouldn't what I'm talking work?

4) I'll continue with the 6 man meta jabs because players are making judgment calls from this angle. I come from a different mindset/meta when 12v12 was a BIG THANG. It seems that since RoR started small and then is gaining momentum 6v6 has dominated the meta here. I keep seeing people reference things from this 6v6 mindset and make judgement calls on classes from it, when its not accurate in a larger scale setting. Should I remind you about this thread?

6 man meta thread
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... =8&t=12342

5) I'm trying to get find players that are interested to try out my idea's. I've got like 5 to 7 or so players interested so far but everyone plays at different times and everyone has their own guild premades they run in also. Currently I'm focused on trying to run a 12 man chaos group. It looks like your have a magus. Would you be interested in participating? The playstyle is hyper untraditional and doesn't work like traditional frontline/backline kiting premade groups. You'd have to change your playstyle and be open to constructive criticism though.

1. I just entirely disagree with gaurding a pet. Besides the fact, I have a feeling any tag you put on it via addon's would disppear each time ti died, making it hard to target in the first place. Oh and your SMs are both in somewhat DPS mode, so they're not super tanky to begin with.

2-3. I think you are just flat out pushing what you can expect a 6man to do. Alot of your builds are tied to morales. That means you gotta fight and build it. Essentially, your build is handicapped in that if it gets ganked, or pushed quickly, you're kinda boned. I really don't see this group taking on any decent kiting/ganking group. And a decent AoE group would melt you before you could do much about it.

4. I think you're just really trying for an argument here. Some people really prefer the 6man or small groups. Some prefer larger fights. Considering the fact that there is no real balance discussion till T4, I fail to see what has been "dominated" by the 6man supporters. They got a SC pop. Cool.

5. GL! No sarcasm. I'd like to see what you can pull off.

[footpatrol2]

1. Both of those builds can be built very tanky and don't have to be built as dps. What I did when playing that class is i'd have gear swaps and swap gear in and out as needed. In addition you just stack heavy parry plus defensive stats on your gear and renown.

2-3. Most of my builds can make use of a morale but its purely functional without using them. You can use traditional morale's or you can use the morales that I suggested. Either way. The morale 4 stuff is just icing on the cake. Maybe I shouldn't talk about the morale pushes at all. It might be too much information to take in and people get fixated on it and not really look at the mechanics of what I'm talking about. Obviously you have to make the group work first and functional without it then you start playing around with morale bombs once you get more comfortable. Its kinda the pinnacle of this style of play. Like the last level of a game. I've pulled off these morale bombs before... I have to say its a thing of freaking beauty when its done in a racial group. Kinda cry worthy good. The animations... looked amazing.

These builds are not Dependant heavily on the morales. I'm just stating how they compliment what I'm talking about.

4. Pick any class forum. Look at the questions and then look at the responses. This is a broad stroke statement but most of it sits in a meta that has zero room for 2/3rds of the class spec lines out there. This mentality is eliminating 2/3rd's of the game to just fit in this 6 man meta. My perspective is using everything. This 6 man meta is not.

Do you not see why I wouldn't be concerned?

Look I have no problem with people wanting to play 6 man's. I enjoy it greatly. But there is a meta beyond 6 man and when people start asking for changes to fit a smaller meta it affects the larger meta also. In addition people are constantly shaming others into this 6 man meta. Look at what p3 does.

Do you not think that this 6 man meta mentality will carry over to the balance forums?
Large sections of abilities have been hacked out of this game in live because of this mentality. I can list if you want.

5. Thanks. Its a challenge.

[footpatrol2]

Want to know when you might want to guard a turret/demon?

In a Keep defense (Tank wall group)
Have your engie's/magus's slot extra ammo/lasting chaos tactic.

Group composition 1 engie/magus 1 group healer the rest tanks. Maybe take 2 groups of them. Tanks cross guard each other. Park the turret/demon not in direct line of sight of the keep entrance but off to the side. Have 1 tank guard turret/demon. Obviously have engi/magus healer park WAY the hell away from the pain at the door. Healer is just there for passive group heals.

Extra ammo/lasting chaos feeds AP 40 ap every 2 sec's outside of your group for 30 ft. Tank wall the entrance with highest avoidence tanks so they can't be reliably AoE knockbacked.

With 2 turrets/demons with the tactics listed above the Tank wall will be able to constantly use hold the line. If your worried about AP drains stack more turrets.

Have other warband healers outside of your tank wall group single target heal those tanks.

[Dabbart]

But... Why?

You want to dedicate 6 players to maximizing pets?

Also, no. I don't see why you are concerned. You get to play this game for free and get to put post your idea's and thoughts on the forums, at no charge. Just like the rest of us.

You want the game to be balanced based on larger groups. Good for you. I would like the game balance perspective to be from both 6v6 and 12v12. One must be conscious of both, since a change to how something works in one, could drastically effect the other. Trying to balance based on WBs is just ridiculous. There is no "Balance" when you put 24 v 24. Even less to think of zerg's being balanced is just funny. There are just simply far too much going on to contemplate balanced.

I LOVE my WH. In a WB or zerg v zerg fighting, he is useless compared to a slayer or even WL. So he ganks around the edges and backlines, or sometimes entirely away from the main groups. To "balance" a WH for large scale combat would imo break him for the 6man meta where he performs wonderfully. In 12v12 the WH starts to lose his edge, but can still fight in the heat of it, and pounce on backlines w/o disappearing in a puff of red mist.

Point is, you have to pick a spot to balance from. Yes, you take the input from people who point out how any change will affect X Y or Z. I have no worries about the Dev team catering to the 6man meta as you put it. Actually the opposite, judging by a lot of their posts in the thread you keep tossing around...

You get to post as well on all of the balance discussions when they appear. Your voice will be heard, or not depending how many have you on an ignore list...

[Toldavf]

You stop a zerg at keep by maintaining vicious amounts of DPS in the doorway not by body blocking. 1 engine and 4 under healed tanks won't be keeping anyone out. Also why so many tanks when you can have a better mix of classes with greater effect? Trying to find some alternative to the meta isn't an awful thing, however allot of your ideas come over as inpractical.

[footpatrol2]

You want to dedicate 6 players to maximizing pets?

@dabbart
I never said that. I said that it was a tank wall group. If you are a guild that is very well organized and can get 4 to 5 tanks you can run the group i said above. I think your misinterpreting what I wrote or maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The WH is balanced for large scale Orvr fights. I've written about it and the role they fill in keep assaults. Plus WH's are some of the best classes to punish stragglers.

@Toldavf
100% agree which is why the body block isn't the only thing your doing. It has to be a temporary thing.

[Bretin]

this thread is 100% odd. WL is probably the best mdps for open RvR due to his mobility. there is really no other problem than the player behind the keyboard. ofc he is no 1337 lord room defender and is quite bad at funneling gates. his strength is his mobility and burst. not every class must have a skill requirement of 0 and the posibility to deal damage without targeting. the WL is probably the most fun class in the game due to its playstyle and positional requirements. sad part is, most people rate him bad or suggest odd buffs like this bc they don't know how to use him.

the only thing which i'd love to have is a command e.g. ALT+RMB to control the pet movement manually. something like this would allow you to slot Speed Training to keep your pet alive without gimping your tactic line up . the contra part: it is clearly not a pug friendly solution.

[peterthepan3]

Look I have no problem with people wanting to play 6 man's. I enjoy it greatly. But there is a meta beyond 6 man and when people start asking for changes to fit a smaller meta it affects the larger meta also. In addition people are constantly shaming others into this 6 man meta. Look at what p3 does.

Do you not think that this 6 man meta mentality will carry over to the balance forums?
Large sections of abilities have been hacked out of this game in live because of this mentality. I can list if you want.

i'll just refrain from trying to offer any advice then, as you just throw jabs that have no bearing whatsoever on the OT nor pertain to my points (how does '6man meta' answer any of my comments).

good luck with your setups. i eagerly look forward to seeing you put pen to paper (in the nonliteral sense; you've done enough of that )

please list these abilities that were hacked out of the game to conform to the 6v6 meta, because I still see the WL with about 300 pve tactics, dps wp with a 25% heal debuff with no damage, engineer with 50% AA haste for a 1h, etc.

oh and actually, 90% of classes can work in a 6man setting: engi and magus need a bit of love. quit with the strawman arguments if you don't know what you're talking about

[Keyser]

But...why wouldn't what I'm talking work?

What does "work" mean?

[Telen]

It wont work as you will get rolled over before you reach m2. This is more something you could do with a dwarf racial group. You want to be keeping mobile with elves. Everyone would love to breakout of the current meta and get back to theorycrafting the way other mmo do when they nerf whatever has become dominant. Mythic never did after the the aoe stacking nerfs so its this way for a reason.