AP Regen

[Azarael]

If you are truly concerned about higher tier play, why are you not addressing the point made by various people in this thread that items which assist with AP management exist in higher tiers, as well as tactics and various group abilities on the classes, like Hunter's Fervor?

[Bullen1995]

Aluviya is right its to slow atm...

[Luth]

Spoiler:

You seem to have some personal problem with me Azarael - if so pm me instead of taking it into this topic. In T1 this change won't harm much as i have already said. But in higher Tiers you have spells that consume heavily ap like Impending Doom at the same time all Melee and Ranged DPS with Autoattacks will dominate PvP because they can actually "wait" between two spells - there still is the Autoattack that deals decent damage. For a Caster like Sorc/Magus/BW the staff has the worst Autoattack imagineable

Mdps have autoattacks to balance the fact that they have to walk to the enemy to do damage. Physical rdps have (very weak...) autoattacks to balance the fact that they have to face the huge mitigation values of armour and a lower damage output in general.
Maybe we should give give all magical rdps autoattacks and in return raise the resistance softcaps to the level of the armour-stat...

[Luth]

Aluviya is right its to slow atm...

Do you guys even read what is posted here

Please give everyone an infinite amount ap and 9999 points in their primary damage stat.
There should be only one damaging ability and it should be bind to the left mouse button.
Remove the third person view and make it full mouselook compatible.

Welcome to RoR, the next big Action-MMO (or optionally the next big Warhammer-First-Person-Shooter)!
Massive fun and a deep gameplay warranted!

This is pointless...i'm outa here...

[Glaiveheart]

For what it's worth, one thing of note is that there seems to randomly be a much more significant delay/lull in ticks, which can lead to you suddenly finding yourself out of AP even if you've been trying to properly 'manage' it by stutterstepping to get the tick (this often seems to take at least one second anyway but that could just be lag due to distance for me).

I had windows on my BW earlier (and on my SW/RP trying to level) where I straight up would go within a regen tick for 3s-5s. Then it would start working 'normally'.

On the topic of BW, I have very frequently run out of AP, but just like with live, I would disengage if I didn't think I could kill a target before burning through the bar and regen enough to spike. Mind you, unlike live, I can't do timed burst w/ FB > BB > PS > Sear. But AP management was definitely a concern for BWs, and it also was for healers, too -- there's a reason Resto Burst and Wild Healing were staples on my AM.

Edit: I don't much like the idea that Grungni's Gift and Flash of Chaos are spammable, either. Without the live servers being up we have to rely on second hand sources, old articles, vague memories and common sense, and common sense tells me that 1) an Action Point system should mean something if it exists at all and 2) if Flash of Chaos and Grungni's Gift were meant to be spammable, they would not have an AP cost in the first place. I actually made reference to GG and FoC when discussing the AP issue - an AP system which restores AP immediately after you finish casting means that you REGAIN AP when casting both, and there's no way that was intended to be the case.

FoC/GG were definitely spammable. They dropped the cost to 15 AP and gave them a decent delve to encourage a more mobile playstyle for the RP/Zealot, who didn't have stuff like RB/WH to make stationary casting of big heals a thing. I mean I pretty much only played Zealot/AM/BG from the time that patch went live through to the end of the game.

They have an AP cost because you will eventually run out (because of the AP tick delay) and you can be trained/have AP cost added, and it wasn't a super viable practice for keeping someone up who was getting spammed unless you were built as a flash healer (e.g. it didn't work for most pug players who were all about AoE heal spam for big numbers), but if you were unmolested and had Resto and/or dropped the Master Rune/Ritual you were laughing.


Edit: Oh, and on the "omg out of AP healing" front, keep in mind the double-tick bug still seems to be a thing, so you can be far more frugal and efficient with heal use than spamming big heals, especially if you get a decent mix of healers in a WF and people play smart/conservative and use their detaunts/CC/guards/etc.

[altgrimreaper]

There is something wrong with AP regen. Maybe it's lag, hell if I know. I was farming NPCs tonight with my Shammy. I watched him stand there, not casting, zero AP and none regenerating at all for up to 5 seconds at a time. Similar to what Glaive refers to in the post above. Remember the bug when you couldn't generate soul essence/righteous fury? It seemed like that, but not as bad.

[Nemoel]

Now when im thinking long enough i can remember that there indeed was an ap regen for every class every sec, even during the fight. it regens1 sec after your last casted spell. And in t1 there were no items with ap reg. there are some videos on youtube where you can see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBk-ZZ80Kc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of6ULRZj0lo
lvl2 bw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBS1WuXOrCU

[Luth]

In video 1 i don't see any unusual ap-regen. It's a melee class, so the moment he is on the enemy, spamming one ability after another without the tiniest pause, his ap go down to zero without any ap-regen. The moment his target is out of range and he tries to spam abilitys but they don't fire (because of the necessary minimum range), he is regaining his ap.
In second 25 this is shown very nice in slow motion.
I didn't watch the other two videos, because video 2 is from the 28.08.2009 and video 3 is from the 11.12.2008.
Patch 1.32 (that fixed both ap-bugs) was pushed live on the 16.10.2009 on the european servers and maybe a day or two earlier on the us-servers.

Edit: I just tested it again on the server: if i hit skills like crazy one after another, my ap go down. If i hit a skill and make a slight pause between the next skill, my ap go up. This is the right and original mechanism.
The people complaining here, want to spam abilitys one after another and want to regen ap the same time.
As i stated several times:
They have played too much endgame WAR with it's high ap-regen stuff and/or played some of the newer action-mmos for a long time (those don't have any real resource-management anymore).

P.S.: Just to make it clear: i don't deny any possible bug, that the players have ap-issues when the server is lagging (i didn't experienced it yet).
But this is another issue. Bending the game mechanics can't be a solution for this.

[Nemoel]

Edit: I just tested it again on the server: if i hit skills like crazy one after another, my ap go down. If i hit a skill and make a slight pause between the next skill, my ap go up. This is the right and original mechanism.

This is what i ment and how it should be.

[Azarael]

There is actually an issue with AP regeneration. Interrupting a cast doesn't count as finishing it, so the AP regeneration takes longer than it should after interrupting a long cast - channels included.

Since I have a certain Chosen trying to claim that there's a broader bug with AP (retracted, there is actually another bug with AP) that Hold The Line! in particular only bugs AP in scenarios, here's the issue demonstrated in the Inevitable City:


Click here to watch on YouTube

Wait for this to be fixed before judging AP.