Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios

[nugster]

No, do you know what the real problem is?

The real problem is that people don't like to lose. Plain and simple.

They dislike it so much in fact, that when they lose in ORvR, they log on to the winning faction, instead of trying to win. The difference with scenarios is, that you can't do that there, or at least not as easy. So instead of pulling yourself together, find out what you're doing wrong and improve, you go to the forums and cry about how "unfun" it is to be farmed.
I'm sorry, but if the enemy is farming you, they deserve to be farming you. If you're being farmed, you deserve to be farmed. It's that simple.

People can't handle obstacles. It's so mind-bugling to me, that you at the slightest resistance, just give up. It baffles me, that after just two (sometimes even just one) wipe, almost every single enemy pug in an entire zone just disappears, and then suddenly there's a huge blop of 1-2 wbs of your own faction, that comes the **** out of nowhere.
It's pathetic that people aren't even trying to fight for the things they want to obtain. Instead they just go for the easy ride-along zerg, or cry on the forums.

The worst part is, our guild is actually seriously considering doing something on Destro now, because whenever we show up, everyone logs off, and we suddenly have +30 people following us, every single time. So we basically have to log on the opposite faction every 2nd time we wipe the pugs in order to keep having someone to fight.

And yes, I'm aware that this is the x-realm problem and shouldn't have anything to do with the subject of this thread, except that it does. It does because it's the same lazy mentality.
/endrant

Well said

[altharion1]

We've gone off topic a touch.

This was supposed to be about having balanced scenarios for 12 soloers v 12 soloers. ~Forget premades for a second because you still get scenarios where 12 randoms fight 12 randoms and one side has zero chance of getting any kills because of a variety of factors.

Ofc if you are a 6man you should be in Caledor Woods or arranging 6v6s. Also don't act like premades don't suffer from the same fear of losing too, why do you think no one will 6v6 Gankbus?

[Jaycub]

>...don't act like premades don't suffer from the same fear of losing too, why do you think no one will 6v6 Gankbus?

There are people who don't like losing, have big egos and don't think or want to get better or admit where they are truly at. These type of people need to feel if they aren't queing up for competitive scenarios that they are admitting defeat or doing something they shouldn't be.

Read boi

Also about gankbus, pretty sure deep and dry has fought them several times. IDK how it is on EU but NA time there is like at best 4-6 guilds on both sides queing up at once, there isn't much competition and it is very easy for one guild to become very dominant if they just put together the same 6 players every night or on a somewhat regular basis they are already at a huge advantage compared to most with that synergy and fixed roster.

Spoiler:

And for what I am sure is going to be several peoples follow up, yes gankbus would beat oldschool if we fought. We don't have near the experience they do 6v6, hopefully 6v6 scenarios will keep our players interested enough that we can form a core 6 that plays together on regular basis and learn how to properly play and communicate in a 6v6. We aren't afraid to lose or admit where we are at, and I'd like to think most of us want to get better. But without a competitive PvP scene, let alone on NA... it is impossible to keep people interested in that type of play. Which is why at best we have like 4 people online anymore

[altharion1]

So the crux of it is.

12 randoms fighting 12 randoms shouldn't get to have a balanced, enjoyable, worthwhile and competitive experience every scenario by artificially balancing each side with a buff.

Because lower tier premades are too scared to go caledor woods. And might lose or not be able to farm in 12 v 12 scens if the randoms got a little buff, and thus the bad premade would QQ cos of OP casuals?

[Tiggo]

Maybe a debuff of some kind can be added for sc leavers and afks, say a reduction in RR/XP rate for 30mins which cannot be removed with relog etc, would be lovely.

Problem is, that in some scenarios there is only one exit out of spawn (MT, Isha), so no way to bypass the enemy spawn campers. Apart from that, this is a good idea. Being dead or at spawn for more that one minute, gives you a rr/xp debuff for 30 minutes.

isha has a second exit to behind actually you can even get a dmg orb when not having the flag.

[Jaycub]

The crux is the good solutions require a much larger population, at least that's my opinion. Things like skill brackets, scenario manager that builds good groups, etc...

We both want the same thing for 12v12 scenarios, but I am totally against buffing one sides effectiveness. That would be like making touchdowns worth more than 6 points if your team is losing badly in real football.

We need real good fights, not artificial ones dictated by some weird in game communist system.

[freshour]

So there have been some good suggestion and the usual QQ to any changes as most people fear change. So assuming every enemy team is full of angels who take all the objectives and then wait peacefully while you sit in spawn and never EVER cap maybe 1 objective and just farm their gears of war/kill quests (course that never happens) even still there could be some streamline improvements.

So sometimes a very close match can be 300 to 0 at one point, a quick swing of momentum and boom the other team gets going strong again. I think there could be a multiplier for score for every x number of a team in the spawn area for more than 10 seconds. So if you are getting spawn camped, and they decide to be jerks, just let that multiplier build up, and the game finishes quickly.

It gives the losers nothing as they don't really get points, but they can get out of there if they want. Maybe say that 3-4 minutes have to go buy before "re spawn multiplier" takes effect. This might not be perfect, but it would definitely be the "least exploitive" way to fix this issue for most people.

thoughts?

[Gerv]

Spoiler:

And for what I am sure is going to be several peoples follow up, yes gankbus would beat oldschool if we fought. We don't have near the experience they do 6v6, hopefully 6v6 scenarios will keep our players interested enough that we can form a core 6 that plays together on regular basis and learn how to properly play and communicate in a 6v6. We aren't afraid to lose or admit where we are at, and I'd like to think most of us want to get better. But without a competitive PvP scene, let alone on NA... it is impossible to keep people interested in that type of play. Which is why at best we have like 4 people online anymore

Meh we would see, but alas we do need to bring back our nightly 6. Great times they were.

[Scrilian]

Yea, fear of change, sure :^)

[altharion1]

The crux is the good solutions require a much larger population, at least that's my opinion. Things like skill brackets, scenario manager that builds good groups, etc...

We both want the same thing for 12v12 scenarios, but I am totally against buffing one sides effectiveness. That would be like making touchdowns worth more than 6 points if your team is losing badly in real football.

We need real good fights, not artificial ones dictated by some weird in game communist system.

We kind of already have a weird communist system where AAO makes touchdowns worth more than 6 points if your team is losing badly.

I agree my idea isn't perfect. But as you say a better solution would require a larger population. But that is no excuse for not trying to change things for the better. Why not test it, if its fail then just revert back.