KD duration for balance or loss of flavour

[greenstoned]

I still think that most CC in this game was over nerfed. Mainly stagger and roots, but also KD to some degree

some of us prefer not to deal with 9s stagger again

i second this, 9 sec in organised groups is pretty much slaughterhouse stuff

[Gobtar]

I think the subject of staggers is for a different discussion. For the most part rewinding the MDPS KD back to 2s seems to be appropriate by general consensus, only real worry seems to be the subject of cave-in.

As per the topic, it was a good move, but i'm still an advocate of making mdps knockdowns 2s across the board, and tanks 3s. It doesnt make for good coutnerplay when you can be kd'd by a dps and lose 90% of your hp before you get up.

Speaking as a BG player, I would open to the idea of losing the 5s KD as long as their were some concessions made to address this nerf.

[Shadowgurke]

No its not.

When melee is 100 and ranged is 80, having a tank that gives you 60 isntead of 40, makes up for the loss of damage while the extra survivability is not needed because they are ranged.

The numbers are entirely made up, just to show a point.



Its not so meta because meta groups are melee trains and unless you are stomping, you would rather get a shield and let the slayers go to town, no need for your damage.

Oh I don't claim that a 2H tank is not better in your setup. I just think that melee > range setup, hence saying that anything in non meta setup is subpar by definition, meta being meta for a reason and all that. Of course you can disagree with that assessment in which case there is no point in debating that further

2h ib losses defenses for damage, if you ddont need the defenses, there is nothing subpar about it.

Are you saying you slot 100% str, no renown points into defensive RAs and wear full Duelist/Offensive Set? I find that hard to believe

[Razid1987]

I think any straw polls which includes roles, instead of classes, are a bit iffy.

I don't think it's very wise to just make broad generalized statements about MDPS-classes's need for KDs like this.
The classes are different, so they have different needs for CC. Some classes have more than one KD, others don't. Some have snares, others don't. Some have Charge, other dont.
Making it a role-wide 3 sec KD or something like that, wouldn't be good for class balance, imo. It might end being a fair change for some MDPS classes, but it might at the same time, end being a bad change for the other MDPS.

By the end, you fix nothing. You are where you started.

[TenTonHammer]

So if we are here talking about KDs, then lets take this one step further and discuss something critically related to KDs

Immunities and also in conjunction mkds; RKDS

if we shorten KD duration from mdps and im going to assusme that in relation will also reduce the durations for rkds as well?

furthermore if we shorten kd durations should the immunity durations that it gives also be shortened?

[Gobtar]

I think any strawpolls which includes roles, instead of classes, are a bit iffy.

I don't think it's very wise to just made broad generalizations about MDPS-classes's need for KDs like this.
The classes are different, so they have different needs for CC. Making it a role-wide 3 sec KD or something like that, wouldn't be good for class balance, imo. It might end being a fair change for some MDPS classes, but it might at the same time, end being be a bad change for the other MDPS.

By the end, you fix nothing. You are where you started.

Broad generalizations to change KDs is exactly what brought us into the problem in the first place. Not all MDPS had 2s KD. I think WE/WH and Choppa/Slayers should return to 2s KDs (hense the rewind wording). I believe the WL and Mara always had 3s KD in their "tank" tree. My point on the BG is that should it come to a Tank wide 3s KD rule I would want concessions to be made.

On the subject of immunities. 1s per CC = 10 seconds of immunities. I believe any changes to KD would be reflected by this rule.

[bloodi]

Oh I don't claim that a 2H tank is not better in your setup. I just think that melee > range setup, hence saying that anything in non meta setup is subpar by definition, meta being meta for a reason and all that. Of course you can disagree with that assessment in which case there is no point in debating that further

Well, you are basically arguing that anything that is not Kobts+IB+double slayer+wp+rp is subpar and non viable then?

Are you saying you slot 100% str, no renown points into defensive RAs and wear full Duelist/Offensive Set? I find that hard to believe

No, i am saying that he can fill a role where his guard is not a primary task if he uses it on people who will never will be in his guard range and never should be, since those classes have also overall lower damage, the 2h ib makes up for it and the lack of defenses in this case is not a downside

[Shadowgurke]

Well, you are basically arguing that anything that is not Kobts+IB+double slayer+wp+rp is subpar and non viable then?

I never said 6v6 only, I just said meta. For Zergs that would include BWs and SMs, as well as Engis and SW. However, if you focus on a specific instance, like 6v6, then yes. But I would also include WL, SM and AM.

But I think this is not really the place to talk about this. My point is that I think a 4s KD would be a nice way to make 2H IB relevant. Although, and i agree with you in that regard, IB is the last 2H Tank that needs some sort of buff.

[TenTonHammer]

but wouldnt that mean that that is falling into diffrent catagories for 6v6 grps?

like you have your bomb grps , then your melee train grps (which 2h ib would be good for), then your got your 1-3-2 rdps grps

[Shadowgurke]

but wouldnt that mean that that is falling into diffrent catagories for 6v6 grps?

like you have your bomb grps , then your melee train grps (which 2h ib would be good for), then your got your 1-3-2 rdps grps

I am not sure if I understand. Bomb groups are not a 6v6 setup. I also think that 1-3-2 is more of an open rvr skirmish group than a pure 6v6 group, or at least underperforms in a straight up 6v6 compared to a melee train.