DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[Penril]

I'll make it simple: Good groups like to fight against larger numbers, and will try to do it all the time. When the only option for heals in these situations is Dok, you have a balance problem.

Don't tell me Doks and WPs are not (or won't be) used in 6v6. Just don't. Even if their range is nerfed you will still see them due to group cleanse, Covenant of Celerity, Exalted Defenses, 1k1 and higher armor (which helps much more against 6 players than against a whole WB btw).

[peterthepan3]

They need a ranged nerf or something to coincide with am/rp being given some mobility heals as of late (maybe it was just AM? forgot) and it would go a long way in leveling out the playing field.

[Tesq]

im not , i'm saying i don't like see stuff nerf for a bad reason.

PPL that want be able to fight vs bigger groups concern skill not balance, balance are achive in equal number vs equal number not with greater or smaller.

If you balance in 6vs6 and g-heals are too strong then i can get it and live with nerf thread. But not cos there are other aspect of the dok/wp like procs that need a nerf---> take care of every issue differently and by type not as are the same.

[Penril]

im not , i'm saying i don't like see stuff nerf for a bad reason.

PPL that want be able to fight vs bigger groups concern skill not balance, balance are achive in equal number vs equal number not with greater or smaller.

And i don't like seeing stuff buffed for a bad reason. I think cloth healers are fine and Dok/WP just need to be adjusted in a way that makes all healers equally viable for 6vX. You can agree with me or not on this one. That's ok. Let's agree to disagree.

Same thing with tanks (i believe all tanks are balanced and need no buffs, except for KotBS who could use a little toning down).

[Sulorie]

Shorter range will kill DOK/WP healing in pug sc. Look how scattered the team is nowadays, now reduce heal range and then expect to groupheal people.

I can't imagine why you guys still stick to the range reduction idea.

[Penril]

Shorter range will kill DOK/WP healing in pug sc. Look how scattered the team is nowadays, now reduce heal range and then expect to groupheal people.

I can't imagine why you guys still stick to the range reduction idea.

It is just a suggestion. It can be tested. If it fails, it can be rolled back and then we test something else. Also, the only spell with reduced range would be group heal. They will still be able to use their other toys.

Unless you think all healers are perfectly balanced between each other, which is an opinion i respect (but disagree with). There have been some other suggestions in this thread. I don't see any harm in taking at least 3 of those and testing them.

[Sulorie]

Unless you think all healers are perfectly balanced between each other, which is an opinion i respect (but disagree with). There have been some other suggestions in this thread. I don't see any harm in taking at least 3 of those and testing them.

I wouldn't have made a suggestion, when everything is fine.
The range suggestion just has so many obvious flaws, I can't believe it is still discussed.
I mean, we can post a dozen ideas but shouldn't test all ingame. At first we should break those ideas from a gameplay perspective - basically finds the flaws in order to improve them. It should only be tested ingame, when it is refined on the paper.

[Penril]

Unless you think all healers are perfectly balanced between each other, which is an opinion i respect (but disagree with). There have been some other suggestions in this thread. I don't see any harm in taking at least 3 of those and testing them.

I wouldn't have made a suggestion, when everything is fine.
The range suggestion just has so many obvious flaws, I can't believe it is still discussed.
I mean, we can post a dozen ideas but shouldn't test all ingame. At first we should break those ideas from a gameplay perspective - basically finds the flaws in order to improve them. It should only be tested ingame, when it is refined on the paper.

I understand. My problem is that some people (not saying you do this) just say "no! bad idea!" but don't give any other suggestions.

[magter3001]

Rule of MMO's... never nerf healers. Just buff everyone to their status.

On topic though (current topic)... nerfing range on WP and DoK again (it used to be 150ft before is really dangerous especially because of latency. You already have to account 30ft just for latency and never stay the full 100ft away from your intended healing target. As wingz already pointed out, IB's would hard counter DoKs with their heal debuff. I love the idea of the WP and DoK being put in harms way as heavier armored healers however I don't believe they should be healing nerfed on top of that (which is what will happen with the heal debuffs)

[Gachimuchi]

I'd say its more of other healers just aren't strong as Dok WP. Look at covenants for example, they offer very strong bonuses to an entire group that you can't get elsewhere. Zealot/RP has a Str/Int/BS buff which only has use if you have a RDPS that doesn't have pots, or a MPDS without pots and you don't have a KOTBs/Chosen running the str aura. Shaman's resist buff and zealots resist buff are rendered useless by having a KOTBs/chosen. The willpower/initiative buff is the only thing zealot/RP really have going for them since not a lot of things buff initiative. The number is still low because the tree associated with its level is bad and nobody bothers with it.