SH vs SW difference

[Razid1987]

Who cares about what is "official"? This is not a trademark patent.

Well, I'm pretty sure some people do.

Hell, i am even sure Mythic never mentioned mirrors ever, its just a community thing.

Probably. It's just food for thought, though. Something to be considered, is all I'm saying. Maybe it should announced somewhere, simply because people can look for pages like the one I linked, and find this info. It's sending conflicting messages. Ironically, the only reason that I know of that page, is because someone on this forum linked it as a source.

But enough derailing: Please continue to bash each other over the heads, claiming which class is most OP of the two

[Vdova]

at the end of the day if u know how to play the herder u can easy kill a sw in sec and thats without any knockdowns

Tell me how mr Yoda. Teach me please

its an elf, big ears, its and elf, smells like elf, looks like elf, taste like elf,boring horse mount, even more boring animations and emotes, etc etc

Lol u surely like elves^^

I like elves as much as rest of the order races

[Crazyboss]

I have seen alot of SC's where SW been at the top of damage chart but never SH. Maybe SH better in something else?

m8 don't even ask about such things like order characters better then destro
no one order player agree that it is fact that SW>SH, Slayer>Choppa, AM>Shaman, and so on,
more! they tell you that destro is too powerful, so what that SW, slayer, BW doing top damage on 90% of scenarios, and have better skills then destro like Pounce and Inevitable Doom, order characters are still weak and need support
looks like that game should be funny only for one side

this

don't forget about WP free aoe detaunt

[tomato]

Stinky wrote sw has more burst and sustained dmg, this couldn't be further from the truth.
His post is mostly one sided to let the sw appear way better than it is compared to sh. Leaving out really important points. I looked at everything and compared it without bias.

This is your opinion, counter to his. He brings forth knowledge from actually playing both classes. You bring forth conjecture that is no better or worse than his supposed generalizations. At least his generalizations are based on actually playing both classes in their current state.

You ignored almost all my points, as usual and your only real argument is stinky has mained that class? Ye he has, but he's still spilling bullshit. Most of his posts are just sw is op, buff sh...

It is interesting - if he gives an opinion based on his actual knowledge and play of both classes its "spewing bullshit" but if you give your opinion it is apparently "truth". Why do you think the community would not look at your own comments, made without playing both classes, and not consider it "spewed bullshit"? In addition, he did not ask for any buff to squig - merely just gave evidence of his own gameplay on both classes.

You can include VoN and SF into the dmg discussion, won't change what I wrote earlier. (on priority targets, sh dmg>sw)

I think this changes the discussion of whether his points are "far from the truth" a great deal. This discusses one of your two concerns from his post - i.e. burst. Having this ability would definitely give better burst to the SW. Consider his points:
1. buggy pets that are easily killed, sometimes do not even attack your target even when manually commanded, and easily in group play do not give you 100% uptime full dmg.
2. Base higher dmg in SW abilities that are not dependent on pet and are 100% uptime
3. VoN which further increases burst.

I played both classes aswell. Don't get why you think I'm just theorycrafting. Well, just another wrong assumption I guess.

Ofc sw has higher base dmg, he has not pet. But the difference in base dmg doesn't make up for spiked squig dmg+procs. SH had and probably will always have higher sutain and burst dmg on cloth classes.

With VoN and RF on, sh has higher burst.

Stinky didn't even make a diffrence between armored and cloth classes. That's generalizing and spewing bs.
If you look at his post/thread history, he's always up for how bad sh is and how strong sw. He's the guy who wants his class/realm buffed with zero concern for balance.


If you got a sw and a cloth armor guy, I have a sh ready and we can gladly do some dmg testing.

They're pretty well balanced atm, so I see zero reason to change anything regarding those mirrors.

[tomato]

I have seen alot of SC's where SW been at the top of damage chart but never SH. Maybe SH better in something else?

m8 don't even ask about such things like order characters better then destro
no one order player agree that it is fact that SW>SH, Slayer>Choppa, AM>Shaman, and so on,
more! they tell you that destro is too powerful, so what that SW, slayer, BW doing top damage on 90% of scenarios, and have better skills then destro like Pounce and Inevitable Doom, order characters are still weak and need support
looks like that game should be funny only for one side

this

don't forget about WP free aoe detaunt

Yes the aoe detaunt on 2hand wp made him clearly op.

You need to understand, the reason you're getting beat is not that order classes are better, it's because you play like ****.

Our guild played mainly destru the past month, and we had zero problems with "order opness".
But I guess it's just easier to blame balance than to actually ltp.

[Tklees]

Another gankbus l2p thread, yay!

[tomato]

m8 don't even ask about such things like order characters better then destro
no one order player agree that it is fact that SW>SH, Slayer>Choppa, AM>Shaman, and so on,
more! they tell you that destro is too powerful, so what that SW, slayer, BW doing top damage on 90% of scenarios, and have better skills then destro like Pounce and Inevitable Doom, order characters are still weak and need support
looks like that game should be funny only for one side

Blame it on posts like this. Or the wp one.

[Thorondir]

They're pretty well balanced atm, so I see zero reason to change anything regarding those mirrors.

I think SW probably has the edge in T3, but it is not huge. When both classes are running the meta 1s EE/Plink builds in T4 I really don't see too much difference.

In any event:

We're not doing anything else to any class until we reach T4.

So I don't think this discussion will be going too far.

[LazyWorm]

I guess it was a bad idea to ask questions about such things, sorry i'm kinda new at this game.

[tomato]

@OP: Pet dmg isn't counted in sc statistics, so obv. sh will have lower dmg statistics.

That is the anwser to your OP question.