[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[Fulkan]

I havent been in a serious premade, that is one that is not a pug one built from people in the lfg channel since Retail closed and i lost my old guild.

I am however not heavily traumatized by them as you seem to be.

Actually, it is a vocal minority that are heavily traumatized at the idea that pugs (as you have indicated the 99%) be given an avenue that allows them to play the game in a premade free environment. The proposed solution, ONE measly pug-only-sc, is still apparently a major butthurt for alot of you.

I got Mursie's back on this. Nothing's worse then farming the same exact pugs over and over again. I genuinely end up feeling bad for people that get qued against us multiple times. It's absolutely no fun having to sit there and lose without having any chance of doing anything else. I know this because I feel exactly the same when I'm PUG'ing against a six man or a double, multiple SC's in a row. It's a waste of time, it's frustrating and it drives people away from the game.

We were quing last night and there was a decent amount of quality order players fighting against us. However, it was apparent that they weren't quing together - so by the third or fourth set of ques, these players were literally standing around, either doing nothing or just dying to us on purpose. I felt bad. That's all I have to say.

This isn't how I want my PVP to be. Farming people who don't have proper groups or enough game experience isn't beneficial or fun. Something's gotta change.

I still do thing that a majority "Surrender" vote should be implemented. Very many PVP games have it and I have no idea why WAR doesn't. Especially if you only make it available after the SC timer passes the half way mark or your SC group consist of four people while the other side has twelve.

[bloodi]

I still do thing that a majority "Surrender" vote should be implemented. Very many PVP games have it and I have no idea why WAR doesn't. Especially if you only make it available after the SC timer passes the half way mark or your SC group consist of four people while the other side has twelve.

Did you ever think about the games that do not? Why for example Dota does not while lol has one?

There is plenty of arguments in dota for it too, if you thhink you are getting stomped in scs here i would love to see some of you getting fountain camped in dota, its not like War where you kill the process and log in again, doing so would minimally get you an abandon and put you in the low priority queue.

Yet they do not have surrender and there is very valid reasons for it.

Here is Eric Jhonson talking about it http://i.imgur.com/87NTMsC.png

[lilsabin]

amazing comeback eh

[Jaycub]

I like their decision to not add surrender to dota, got really tired of idiots in HoN giving up at 15 minutes. Same thing will happen here with people seeing a certain premade then voting to surrender at 0 minutes etc... Another major difference is scenarios in WAR last a fraction of the length of a most mobas out there.

The other problem is winning is almost a non factor for a lot of people, people value kills much more than winning the scenario. The game really needs to incentive winning via cut off rewards or a ladder/MMR system to promote winning to climb.

>muh PvE in scenarios

Don't que for objective based scenarios then fampai

[magter3001]

I got Mursie's back on this. Nothing's worse then farming the same exact pugs over and over again. I genuinely end up feeling bad for people that get qued against us multiple times. It's absolutely no fun having to sit there and lose without having any chance of doing anything else. I know this because I feel exactly the same when I'm PUG'ing against a six man or a double, multiple SC's in a row. It's a waste of time, it's frustrating and it drives people away from the game.

If you're playing against Destro NA, a pug only scenario is not going to fix it... NA Destro are f-ing terrible 80% of the time if not more. Even the "premades" that they make are horrible. On Order though, I've had multiple scenarios against your destro group where we stood our ground or won whether it's a 4 man or myself solo queueing, punting Mursie in GoE 4-5 times in a row. Thankfully Order during NA primetime are better players, at least most of them.

We were quing last night and there was a decent amount of quality order players fighting against us. However, it was apparent that they weren't quing together - so by the third or fourth set of ques, these players were literally standing around, either doing nothing or just dying to us on purpose. I felt bad. That's all I have to say.

This isn't how I want my PVP to be. Farming people who don't have proper groups or enough game experience isn't beneficial or fun. Something's gotta change.

Is it the fault of the premade that they are queuing solo? How is solo queue going to help the bad players get better? I think you guys are missing the point. Solo queue won't help pugs, in fact it might make it worse for them. If a premade queues (and their healers are good) they will help heal the second party if their own group is at full health. If you queue solo, you end up with what happened on NA destro last night... 2 dps DoKs queuing as healers and not giving out any heals to the two parties.

At least the Destro chat was funny to watch from the rage those two Dps DoKs gave.

[Fulkan]

I still do thing that a majority "Surrender" vote should be implemented. Very many PVP games have it and I have no idea why WAR doesn't. Especially if you only make it available after the SC timer passes the half way mark or your SC group consist of four people while the other side has twelve.

Did you ever think about the games that do not? Why for example Dota does not while lol has one?

There is plenty of arguments in dota for it too, if you thhink you are getting stomped in scs here i would love to see some of you getting fountain camped in dota, its not like War where you kill the process and log in again, doing so would minimally get you an abandon and put you in the low priority queue.

Yet they do not have surrender and there is very valid reasons for it.

Here is Eric Jhonson talking about it http://i.imgur.com/87NTMsC.png

Oh, I do understand about winning. Very much so. Both Mursie and I, win about 95% of our SCs, if not more. It's a lot of fun and stampeding SWs and BWs will never get old. Like I say, the best BW is the one I'm using as a mop. Orange haired bastards.. SW as well. Nothing makes a better rug then a SW. Or maybe a WL? They have that thick mane around their heads. Best rugs around!!!!

That being said, I don't think DoTA is a good comparison to WAR. Apples and oranges. More like, apples and onions.

Ultimately, if I'm going to spend fifteen minutes farming someone who doesn't have the ability to fight back against me, I don't see why we can't just move on. I'd rather collect my emblems in an even and an exciting fight, then a snooze fest. Does anyone want to spend half an hour in a SC to get two emblems? I hope to god not.

With a "Surrender" option, the winning team would get six emblems, and the team getting farmed, would receive one. This, literally, changes nothing, except the time it takes. It allows people to re-que faster, obtain gear faster and so on.

Only other way would be to do as Mursie stated. Allow solo players to que for a solo player SC, only.

[Fulkan]

I got Mursie's back on this. Nothing's worse then farming the same exact pugs over and over again. I genuinely end up feeling bad for people that get qued against us multiple times. It's absolutely no fun having to sit there and lose without having any chance of doing anything else. I know this because I feel exactly the same when I'm PUG'ing against a six man or a double, multiple SC's in a row. It's a waste of time, it's frustrating and it drives people away from the game.

If you're playing against Destro NA, a pug only scenario is not going to fix it... NA Destro are f-ing terrible 80% of the time if not more. Even the "premades" that they make are horrible. On Order though, I've had multiple scenarios against your destro group where we stood our ground or won whether it's a 4 man or myself solo queueing, punting Mursie in GoE 4-5 times in a row. Thankfully Order during NA primetime are better players, at least most of them.

We were quing last night and there was a decent amount of quality order players fighting against us. However, it was apparent that they weren't quing together - so by the third or fourth set of ques, these players were literally standing around, either doing nothing or just dying to us on purpose. I felt bad. That's all I have to say.

This isn't how I want my PVP to be. Farming people who don't have proper groups or enough game experience isn't beneficial or fun. Something's gotta change.

Is it the fault of the premade that they are queuing solo? How is solo queue going to help the bad players get better? I think you guys are missing the point. Solo queue won't help pugs, in fact it might make it worse for them. If a premade queues (and their healers are good) they will help heal the second party if their own group is at full health. If you queue solo, you end up with what happened on NA destro last night... 2 dps DoKs queuing as healers and not giving out any heals to the two parties.

At least the Destro chat was funny to watch from the rage those two Dps DoKs gave.

What happened to me last night is that I won every single SC I played.

I had a group. I had fun.

According to you, PUG life wasn't as jolly mostly cuz two idiots ruined it for everyone. However, those two idiots would have received much less hate if they fought other idiots. Simple.

I mean, I don't even know why Mursie and I support PUG'ers so much, lol. We're always playing in a team.

I just want this server to continue on growing and that's not gonna happen if experienced premades wipe the floor with PUG's and the inexperienced.

[bloodi]

You miss the point again, there is no surrender option because you never know for certain that you are going to lose or not and putting this mentality into your players fosters great games.

With surrender, the most likely outcome when you are losing is that your team surrenders, no attempt of comeback or trying to do better, just surrender and queue for the next game.

In dota you have no **** choice but fight back most of the time and that makes you not only improve but realize how wrong you were many times.

Is the same for a solo players only queue, why would i try to queue for the "hard" scs that got premadess in them? I will just queue for the easy ones and not have to worry.

However that means you will improve much less and you may fall on the fallacy that is impossible to win as a pug vs a premade, is not, you can, just like you could win that game in dota, sometimes you will lose but a lot of others you will win and realize that it wasnt so hard.

Thats why i am againsts a surrendder option or a solo queue for scs, they just give you an easy escape and people will take it every time, missing what is really good in the game.

[mursie]

Solo queue won't help pugs, in fact it might make it worse for them.

I disagree with this statement. I think a solo que sc would be very healthy for the game. I think it would give casuals and new players an arena to learn their class and their abilities. All would essentially be on equal ground since everyone is a random in the que. Sure, some players are better than others.. but it's still leaps and bounds more equal footing than an environment where the opposing side is an organized, ts/vent coordinated, 6 man group that would stomp you before you leave spawn.

I think it would also be a breeding ground for players to make contacts and build future coordinated groups to challenge in 6v6 que only arenas.

I believe the following should exist:

1. one sc for pugs to freely play as pugs
2. one sc for premades to freely play against only premades
3. the remainder of sc's that are for any and all group sizes.

Oh - and the reason you are able to cherry pick on order side behind order premades with your deftard punt IB... is because we play the underpopulated side to try and balance the que'ing population. It has become routine for 3 to 4+ order NA premades to be queing. I would love nothing more than to play my geared fully ranked WL. We play undergeared and PL'd destro alts to try and make the sc's somewhat challenging.

[Tesq]

There would be no real conseguence for anyone, it would be a quality change implement a separate queue.
Premades do not want it cos they can farm ppl there is no other justification.
It should matter not to anyone of you in which way someone obtain stuff....if easier or harder than you, until is obtained in legal way which would still be the same just premade will get an harder opposition fighting premade which IS FINE anyone that support the opposite took us back to point 1....premades want easy farm ppl

premades fight premades have the same difficulty than pugs fight pugs.

instead pugs have to fight premades and get roll stomped

or

premades fight pugs and roll stomps

Just end this hypocrisy this is till a game it still need to be FUN for both players if 1 is not it will stop play with time.

Base some excuses around how pugs will all play pugs if this will be implemented instead show how is better and more rewarding and lead to better results have an organized play or kill the weak instead try to form collaboration between ppl is just another form of e pen which premades costantly put in motion being against this change.

edit: want a form to encourage premade via sc only? put a guild ranking online so that everyone can see who's better there !!you can have your e pen shine there and still have other ppl that do not want be roll stomp 3/4 sc have fun.
PPL in the same guild will still group with more benefith for those that play premade and want a challenge and for those that want became better by face better opponents.