Tier 4 - R40+? RR100+?

[Sigimund]

It must be possible for new players to catch up or there will be no new players to replace people who leave the game.

[drmordread]

It must be possible for new players to catch up or there will be no new players to replace people who leave the game.

i understand that, but keep in mind that the majority of new players that MAY come, are all experienced old players of WAR. They know what they are getting into and more important, they have friends playing already and guilds they can join that will really help them to be competitive. Unless there is another wipe Then all the gear being saved, tallies and whatnot in banks for friends who are waiting for t4 to open before playing is going to be gone LOL.

[bichka]

Gear based procs having tradoffs, you mean something similar to unique items in say Diablo/PoE? Like say a sorc staff that allowed you to ignore 25% of the targets spirit res at the cost of having all your resists reduced by a flat 250? Or like a SM 2h that dealt spirit damage as AA damage and converted WS to spirit resistance reduction rather than physical damage reduction at the cost of not being able to parry/dodge/disrupt outside of wall of darting steel.

Or something more simpler like +4 to a certain mastery level while having -4 to another.

Spoiler:

An MMO with ARPG style loot has been my dream since 5ever pls no bully

imho it's not good idea. Premade sorc don't care about resists, guard and heal will handle it, but pug/baddies get even more damage on them and more reasons to cry.

Also kinda offtopic, but any plans for pve part like BS, LV, LOTD or even TOVL?

[Vaul]

I am personally hoping we see a phased rollout when it happens.

Maybe lock it at 36/50 or 40/60.

Do it in waves and give the devs time to make adjustments as needed. Fix sets, add additional sets, and tweak things as needed.

There is a big difference between 40/40 and 40/80 when it comes to gear, and it falls apart for a lot of classes with the later sets and renown ranks. The whole dynamic shifts.

Thats because the Sovereign redesign was monumentally flawed (and beyond idiotic) Up untill that point, each set that followed the previous one brought with it a modest stat boost and varying bonuses. The difference between conqueror and warlord was not insurmountable and could easily be bridged with player skill. The fact that each set was an modest but welcome upgrade meant using earlier sets for compliment specific builds was still viable and attractive. The problem was sov was one of the first designed sets and it wasnt great to the point where tyrant was the best in game.

While Tyrant shouldnt have remained king what followed was stupid, sovereign bonuses and boosts made all previous sets a mockery and moronflayer and idiotforged sets were 100 times worse.

Personally I think Tyrant levels of power is where the game should park up in t4, at least for the forseeable and Sov should be introduced but comparable to tyrant.

Good post. Once upon I time I plotted the relative RR stats on gear (see post for a bit more which was about the Power Gap). You can see the gear curve kinks upwards before Sov and it all goes wrong after that. Add to this also the better jewellery you could also get. (I know this is missing Warn Sov and Tyrant).

I agree with general feeling in this thread that vertical progression should be capped at something sensible (Warlod/Sov) and we should get innovative with horizontal progression instead like cosmetic/status gear/mounts, extra fluff/fun abilities (?), quality of life (free respecs), access to special epeen room in cities

[Cimba]

A question to help me understand the logic of limiting rr to 80 .... phasing in rr levels in steps so that people do not advance faster than others .... nerfing armor sets and weapons .... etc.

Considering that we are all heading to the same thing, max level and rr in end game, then everyone is going to have the same level gear, what is all the fuss about? I just do not get it? Whether it is rr80 or rr100, we are ALL going to get there at some point.

As for low level alts fighting against high level mains; So what? Low levels are supposed to be creamed. Low level toons in end game tiers are the renown pool we all drink out of. In time they will gain rr and be high level too, geared the same way as the rest.

I just do not see the need to spend so much time on useless re-design when more important things should be fixed, like the bug that allows you to see the enemy on the mini map. Would love to see that fixed so I can get to ganking with my WE and WH.

Please help me to understand

I assume with low level you mean low RR? If thats the case you're saying you should win because you played the game longer (on that char) than your opponent. While I for one would prefer the better player to win.

What I meant with an exponential renown curve is that not everybody will get there. In fact I would like to have a curve so steep that the benefit compared with effort to get it is negligible so only players who actually love to play that class continue on.

[Scrilian]

One of my first questions before I decided to again commit myself to play warhammer online again - will that mockery of a great game in the form of "80+ rats and dumbass sets" implemented here? - the answer was No. Happily playing RoR ever since and not thinking to stop
I might disagree with most of recent changes implemented, but if the answer remains the same - would not even mind them. Torq summarised it well the things that drove me away from the original game and makes one hope that fiasco won't happen again.
I personaly think he made a great addition to the dev team :3

[Vaul]

A question to help me understand the logic of limiting rr to 80 .... phasing in rr levels in steps so that people do not advance faster than others .... nerfing armor sets and weapons .... etc.

Considering that we are all heading to the same thing, max level and rr in end game, then everyone is going to have the same level gear, what is all the fuss about? I just do not get it? Whether it is rr80 or rr100, we are ALL going to get there at some point.

As for low level alts fighting against high level mains; So what? Low levels are supposed to be creamed. Low level toons in end game tiers are the renown pool we all drink out of. In time they will gain rr and be high level too, geared the same way as the rest.

I just do not see the need to spend so much time on useless re-design when more important things should be fixed, like the bug that allows you to see the enemy on the mini map. Would love to see that fixed so I can get to ganking with my WE and WH.

Please help me to understand

Low levels shouldn't get creamed. Getting to RR80 nevermind RR100 takes a good while - getting creamed the whole time doing so does not sound like an enjoyable progression to me.

Low levels should always stand a chance against higher levels in my opinion. And by low level I mean RRs and equippable gear at that level. So, for instance, a RR60 Choppa vs RR60 Choppa, both of equal skill & gear should win/lose 50/50 based on RNG (i.e. crits). A RR50 Choppa vs RR60 Choppa maybe the win rate drops to 40/60. RR40 vs RR60 win rate maybe is now 30/70. Throwing numbers out here for example, there probably should be a non-linear scaling so RR75 vs RR80 is only like 45/55 or smaller.

My main point being low level player of equivalent skill should always stand a fighting chance against high level player. Agreeing on an appropriate win/lose ratio at gear discrepancies I think should be fundamental to the long term game design.

[Scrilian]

Well pre-sov-redesign progression in WAR was done pretty good.
By the time a dedicated player acquired RR60+ and invader-warlord levels of gear - that player most likely already found a group he/she was comfortable to play with. This alone might made the gear gap between fresh r40 and RR60+ seem bigger than it actually was.

[Nekkma]

Well pre-sov-redesign progression in WAR was done pretty good.
By the time a dedicated player acquired RR60+ and invader-warlord levels of gear - that player most likely already found a group he/she was comfortable to play with. This alone might made the gear gap between fresh r40 and RR60+ seem bigger than it actually was.

Perhaps it seemed "pretty good" for pure dps classes. For healers, however, it was pretty horrible. Sets full with Int, a stat useless for a healer. Add to that, that Conqueror and Invader where dps sets for shamans which forced you to pve or stick with annihilator until warlord.

The gear pre sov redesign is actually the worst I have seen in any game.

[Scrilian]

Perhaps it seemed "pretty good" for pure dps classes. For healers, however, it was pretty horrible. Sets full with Int, a stat useless for a healer. Add to that, that Conqueror and Invader where dps sets for shamans which forced you to pve or stick with annihilator until warlord.

The gear pre sov redesign is actually the worst I have seen in any game.

Quite the opposite, it was not a linear progression in a form of extra useful desired stats per item level, which most got used to by now. But it was somewhat of a hybrid between this and a branched horizontal progression, where new sets fit different play styles.
For example for a WH you started by Ahni and got a few options:
1. Conq for the corrosion proc, which is superb in solo-gank play
2. Darkpromise+Invader mix for group play with alot of str and wounds with progressing to Tyrant-Sov mix later on.
3. Warlord aka the first Mythic attempt at defensive set
And some other mixes of sets worked and provided various upsided and downsides. Same for Slayer with Warlord being the ORVR set and others for scens, solo, etc.
Though I can't speak much about the healer sets, but always thought it was quite similar. Mythic might've missed their mark here and there but it was a solid non-linear-ish progression with some classes having different, ones harder then the other, ways to achieve desired stats.