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Self Punts on RoR vs Live

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Genisaurus
Former Staff
Posts: 1054

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#31 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:05 pm

mursie wrote:
Genisaurus wrote: While I understand that the implementation of these abilities allowed them to be used in certain ways, I would argue that those uses were not intended. The fact that you could use a self-punt in midair, while moving away from your enemy, to re-engage them makes zero sense. It's the same deal with White Lions using pounce to recover from a knockback.
I find this unfortunate. While the point is moot at the moment, I am curious why you believe abilities like pounce, DA, and AE were left in an error state on live. They operated in that fashion for years. At some point, one has to consider that it was infact not an error, but rather an intentional effect of the ability left in place by the devs of live.
It's hard to say with any degree of certainty what was intended with Mythic, and what wasn't, based on what they fixed and when. It took them almost a year to remove Ballistic Skill from Witch Hunter items, and even after multiple itemization fixes, BWs and SOs still had a disprportionate amount of Willpower on their gear.

I would base my argument on the fact that both the WH/WE abilities have "escape" in their name, and the tooltip specifically says they launch themselves backwards from your target, rather than "backwards away from your facing." Similarly, the SW/SQ abilities both say "knocked back away from your enemies." Regardless of whether other uses were addressed, it's clear from their descriptions that these abilities were intended to be used to disengage.

I will admit that with White Lions, the argument is a bit more difficult to make - the tooltip doesn't specifically state that the ability can't be used in mid-air. However, it does say that the ability can't be used while rooted (and before Staggers existed, stuns prevented pouncing as well) - a form of CC that shares the same immunity timer as a knockback. I think it's fair to infer that pounce was not intended to be used while a movement-CC ability was "in effect." Obviously a WL could pounce as soon as they land, but the knockback still grants a second or two of respite. Which brings me to the balance/fairness point - knockbacks are already one of the hardest CC abilities to use well, since they require an awareness of your surroundings and position that no other form of CC does. Even then, it's generally the least-useful form of CC in the game. Used incorrectly, and it's a free immunity handed out. It strikes me as odd/unfair that we would give one class an immunity to this one specific form of CC on no cooldown.

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ropuch
Posts: 91

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#32 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:18 pm

Plus (almost) all KB/KD/snare/whatever other CC have cooldowns.
A Pounce Too Far: http://imgur.com/KeSt8WL

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mursie
Posts: 674

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#33 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:50 pm

ropuch wrote:Plus (almost) all KB/KD/snare/whatever other CC have cooldowns.
The signature is comedy gold!

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ropuch
Posts: 91

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#34 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:53 pm

mursie wrote:The signature is comedy gold!
I'm glad other WL can appreciate it! [;
A Pounce Too Far: http://imgur.com/KeSt8WL

dirnsterer
Posts: 199

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#35 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:03 am

Genisaurus wrote: I would base my argument on the fact that both the WH/WE abilities have "escape" in their name, and the tooltip specifically says they launch themselves backwards from your target, rather than "backwards away from your facing." Similarly, the SW/SQ abilities both say "knocked back away from your enemies." Regardless of whether other uses were addressed, it's clear from their descriptions that these abilities were intended to be used to disengage.
It is impossibly hard to catch anything to begin with as WE/WH, people just need to run sideways and they will never be caught. Make this into a "They 'disengage' with this skill only", it will be almost a bloody wasteful skill then in my eyes. Like for example with the way I used Agile Escape was to catch things. Sometimes it was good for that escape when kiting enemy groups.

Had a tank snaring you from catching a RDPS? No probs, Agile Escape on the tank and turn towards RDPS to sort of "pounce" into them. Got punted by a RDPS? No probs, time agile escape and turn back as you fly in the punt to get back to the target. Not easy, but it added a good skillful element into the ability. Change this into a "ESCAPE ONLY!" ability, and we have a melee dps just running away from rdps just to get wasted even easier. Fun.

Edit: Asking you people also a question. Are WH/WE a class that is defensive and profits from kiting/escaping their targets?

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Mendozza
Posts: 33

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#36 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:48 pm

Just have a questing there.
Is that a feature when person can actually turn around while bein in knockback?
Vicheg\Vichur\Viche\Perifet\Besik

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noisestorm
Posts: 1727

Re: Self Punts on RoR vs Live

Post#37 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:09 pm

Mendozza wrote:Just have a questing there.
Is that a feature when person can actually turn around while bein in knockback?
That is a bug that has yet to see its cause

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