[KOTBS] "Destroy Confidence" tactic discussion

[Azarael]

the solution is easy, just dont bring shaman. Satisfied?

Fully. Too many shamans in the game, let only the fittest survive. Maybe then I will be able to play my sham without being 5th shaman in the group

I'm sorry but I should quit this pointless conversation. When the tactic becomes avaible, make a kotbs, equip this tactic and try to prove it's oppn'es by destroying everything and everyone. If you manage to show everyone how unbalanced S-C is, I'll be the first to say "I am sorry, I was wrong you clearly know the class better than me".
For now, it's pure theorycrafting backed up by every proper destro's faith in order bias.

How do you explain me, then?

Face it. It's a bad tactic. It doesn't destroy the game, because DoK and Zealot, the two meta healers, use types that are not affected by Destroy Confidence. It destroys SHAMAN, because it is the only healer which uses the Enchantment typing.

Any tactic in the game which exists to shut down one class, and a class that isn't a major balance problem at that, is overpowered. The only reason it's allowed to exist is because people care much less when one class is shut out of the game than if all of the ones on the same faction are, by something generally overpowered.

[Nishka]

the solution is easy, just dont bring shaman. Satisfied?

Fully. Too many shamans in the game, let only the fittest survive. Maybe then I will be able to play my sham without being 5th shaman in the group

I'm sorry but I should quit this pointless conversation. When the tactic becomes avaible, make a kotbs, equip this tactic and try to prove it's oppn'es by destroying everything and everyone. If you manage to show everyone how unbalanced S-C is, I'll be the first to say "I am sorry, I was wrong you clearly know the class better than me".
For now, it's pure theorycrafting backed up by every proper destro's faith in order bias.

How do you explain me, then?

Face it. It's a bad tactic. It doesn't destroy the game, because DoK and Zealot, the two meta healers, use types that are not affected by Destroy Confidence. It destroys SHAMAN, because it is the only healer which uses the Enchantment typing.

Any tactic in the game which exists to shut down one class, and a class that isn't a major balance problem at that, is overpowered. The only reason it's allowed to exist is because people care much less when one class is shut out of the game than if all of the ones on the same faction are, by something generally overpowered.

I really have nothing to add here except that this tactic was avaible on live for many years. Were shamans destroyed by it? No. I never heard "we don't need shaman, you/your heals will be shut down by Shattered Confidence!" even when it was 65ft, not 5 like now.
Let's wait till this tactic becomes avaible and if it is as op as you claim, then nerf will follow. Is it good enough?

[Azarael]

That's the path we're treading anyway.

[Gobtar]

it's pure theorycrafting backed up by every proper destro's faith in order bias.

Yeah, no...ever wondered why in your 6 years of playing why there was a severe lack of Shaman's in t4, arguably the "funniest" destro healer to play? it's not pure theory-crafting, anyone who has played live with any kind of awareness can see the effect that certain tactics have on your opponent.

6 years on such an easy mode class might have dulled your senses, but be grateful you have not had the privilege of seeing a beloved healer forced into rerolling their favourite toon because they were made utterly obsolete as soon as a competent Knight appeard.

This is not pure theorycrafting, I have used this tactic and I have seen this tactic be used. it is the best way to eliminate a shaman from the equation.

The only time our competitive groups ever took a shaman, was because there was no other healers. They were replaced as soon as a zealot or Dok showed up...

"we don't need shaman, you/your heals will be shut down by Shattered Confidence!"

It didn't need to be said, why? because all our shaman's rerolled to Doks and Zealots. Shaman was the only healer I had, it was my name sake, the only time I was asked to get on him was because I literally the only person on. If we queued for SCs i hope the Knights were all like you, completely oblivious to how hard they could stop my healing.

You want to wait till Tier 4, fine. I give it ONE DAY.

[Tklees]

Fully. Too many shamans in the game, let only the fittest survive. Maybe then I will be able to play my sham without being 5th shaman in the group

I'm sorry but I should quit this pointless conversation. When the tactic becomes avaible, make a kotbs, equip this tactic and try to prove it's oppn'es by destroying everything and everyone. If you manage to show everyone how unbalanced S-C is, I'll be the first to say "I am sorry, I was wrong you clearly know the class better than me".
For now, it's pure theorycrafting backed up by every proper destro's faith in order bias.

How do you explain me, then?

Face it. It's a bad tactic. It doesn't destroy the game, because DoK and Zealot, the two meta healers, use types that are not affected by Destroy Confidence. It destroys SHAMAN, because it is the only healer which uses the Enchantment typing.

Any tactic in the game which exists to shut down one class, and a class that isn't a major balance problem at that, is overpowered. The only reason it's allowed to exist is because people care much less when one class is shut out of the game than if all of the ones on the same faction are, by something generally overpowered.

I really have nothing to add here except that this tactic was avaible on live for many years. Were shamans destroyed by it? No. I never heard "we don't need shaman, you/your heals will be shut down by Shattered Confidence!" even when it was 65ft, not 5 like now.
Let's wait till this tactic becomes avaible and if it is as op as you claim, then nerf will follow. Is it good enough?

You do realize, by your own argument I might add, that flames of fate was also on live for years and nothing was done about it but you seem to be upset by that. You're biased. You just proved it for yourself in a matter of two posts.

Back on topic, @Az what do you think about a change to the type change on a shaman heal to blessing and the dok heal changed to an enchantment? Instead of nerfing the tatic itself. Could bring doks back a bit while helping Shaman

[bloodi]

I dont like the idea of changing heal types, just because after all, its only for kobts.

Dont make us have to run kobts all day on order, we already do it, dont enforce it even more.

[Tklees]

I dont like the idea of changing heal types, just because after all, its only for kobts.

Dont make us have to run kobts all day on order, we already do it, dont enforce it even more.

I'm "on order", the point of my idea is that the tactic was never used unless someone saw a shaman pre fight. It would continue to go unused if it wasn't a hard counter to Shaman. That's all I'm saying

[Gobtar]

Back on topic, @Az what do you think about a change to the type change on a shaman heal to blessing and the dok heal changed to an enchantment? Instead of nerfing the tactic itself. Could bring doks back a bit while helping Shaman

(Not Az obviously) I think whoever gets stuck with the enchantments is going to get utterly neutered.

I think having "remove the CD for S-C" brings it inline power wise. It still will be a great tactic when dealing with Shamans but you aren't cutting out 3 for 1 (AP/GCD Economy)

AND/OR

allow D-C tactic to remove 1 blessing or enchantment. This is well worth a tactic slot and makes the knights S-C useful in all fields of play. (This suggestion is also inline because S-C is NOT a core ability)

[bloodi]

I'm "on order", the point of my idea is that the tactic was never used unless someone saw a shaman pre fight. It would continue to go unused if it wasn't a hard counter to Shaman. That's all I'm saying

It was never used unless we saw a shaman because it only broke shamans and we never saw shamans because they were already bad without that on top, compared to zealot and dok.

If that tactic could be run against every healer comp destruction has, it would be run all the time, negating 3 gcds in one is too good to pass up.

[Tesq]

sure make it more strong vs dok yea!!!
so that wp get even MUCH MORE ADVANTAGE over dok, you just dont destroy 1 class, you also want destroy the one that is require in 1x in every party.

nice idea :/