Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[TooGraphic]

I fail to see how arbitrary bonuses on weapon types adds any value to the game. If players were given the freedom to use various skills on various classes with various weapon types then sure there COULD be a tactical element it adds. Currently it just seems like ill-conceived fluff that unnecessarily complicates balancing. Why not get rid of the bonuses on both DW and 2H?

[Penril]

I fail to see how arbitrary bonuses on weapon types adds any value to the game. If players were given the freedom to use various skills on various classes with various weapon types then sure there COULD be a tactical element it adds. Currently it just seems like ill-conceived fluff that unnecessarily complicates balancing. Why not get rid of strikethrough on both DW and 2H?

Aza said on a different thread that he wouldnt be against letting WPs dual wield 1H Hammers. Maybe in the future we will see Dual Wield WLs, 2H Doks, and so on, giving the players the option of going more offensive (10% parry strike through) or defensive (+10% parry).

Baby steps. I see no harm in taking them. But above everything, i see no harm in testing things (as long as they are not crazy suggestions like, for example, giving WPs access to Shields )

[Gobtar]

Because Dual wielding offers 2 very real benefits already, additional proccing and 10% Parry, while 2h offer the fluff bonus you described.

[Bretin]

WL is already pretty strong, agreed.

at least something.

Other than the fact that his main targets are non-parry stacking classes

wrong.

and he is supposed to be behind the target for flanking

so does any melee but besides bad zealots who have 0 movement, there are also ppl who know how to not get flanked.

anyway makes this a rather small buff.

wrong again.

Other than that it's the only class that I worry about.

based on the arguments above?

Everything else is just Tanks.

exactly and tanks are the strongest archetype in the game with the most impact on a battlefield.

And don't tell me 2H tanks are too strong right now

nice that you refer to right now and would balance around that point and not the endgame.

there is a good reason why almost no group does run one

yes there are multiple reasons and one of them is that we're at r32/rr40

and neither does your group.

we run a 2h chosen pretty often

CS main application is Rending Blade which doesn't get affected by a Parry buff.

i lol'd and the first thing i knew was that ppl would argue around rending blade. i'll call it another l2p issue

Edit: Too late apparently. Basically I agree with Penril

...

[mursie]

Serious question:

Wizard and Sorc are 2hander. When the game was initially designed, the idea of a rock / paper / scissor motif was at least attempted to be achieved.

To that end, it was the rdps that was supposed to kill the tank, the tank over the mdps, and mdps over the caster.

If our sorc/bw is our "tank" killer, and they use 2 handers, does the block strike through work for them? Or is that only applied on auto attacks which would therefore be irrelevant.

Basically I'm asking, is the strikethrough applied on their abilities as well? If so, then maybe I could see why the strikethrough on block was done originally by devs with that RPS setup in mind.

[Vigfuss]

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

[Bretin]

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

+1

[Genisaurus]

If our sorc/bw is our "tank" killer, and they use 2 handers, does the block strike through work for them? Or is that only applied on auto attacks which would therefore be irrelevant.

Basically I'm asking, is the strikethrough applied on their abilities as well? If so, then maybe I could see why the strikethrough on block was done originally by devs with that RPS setup in mind.

Actually had to ask about that one myself.

Technically, the Block Strikethrough and the proposed change only apply to Great Weapons, not 2-Handed weapons. Sorcs, BWs, Engis, Squig Herders, etc. are all excluded. They have no passives on their weapons.

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

This is a fair point I can get behind.

[TenTonHammer]

What if you changed the weapon types of WL's to 2h handed as well so that any changes made to great weapons would not apply to them?

some thing similar cannot be done for choppas since BO's use the same weapons unfortunately i think?

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

Cant handle more than one change at once?

[noisestorm]

If you have a 1h with 3.0 speed and the same dps as a 2h with 3.0 , they will both do the same dmg right?

Wrong.

2h weapons have higher dps than their 1h counterparts. Dps is added in every melee dmg calculation which makes every skill stronger. Every single point of dps can be seen as 5 additional strength for skills and even 10 strength for autoattacks.

Read it again - i said IF both have the same DPS and the same Speed, but are just differentiated by having 2h or 1h tag. I am asking this since i also think parry strikethrough is a quite decent buff, but i dont know how heavy a flat %dmg buff for 2h compared to _exactly_ same 1h's stat wise would be. (Especially since 2h naturally has higher base dps values on equal item-lvls)