[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Rebuke]

The original brief of the class was as a healer which built resource through attacking in melee, not a healer which heals well only through melee attacks. I don't agree with buffing Divine Mend specifically because it's an AP heal, but melee healers may need something to cover for their downtime when not able to strike in melee, which happens pretty often, and making their ranged heals viable provided they have recently engaged in melee doesn't seem like an issue. In the long-term, I would not mind seeing Supplication and Blood Offering blocked for melee healing DoK / WP in exchange for access to equal power casted heals with the buff for engaging in melee.

However, I'm not looking at proposing any further changes until the effect of the detaunt change has been studied, and the question of whether to mirror it to DoK has been answered. This will take a while, I think. I want to be sure that the detaunt change won't eliminate too much of the risk of playing in melee, because if it does, further adjustments may not be justified. It also needs to be seen whether the meta shifts at all. If it doesn't, it means we haven't done enough.

In line with the above, the last thing I want the class to end up as is a Sigmar's Radiance spammer for the majority of its life. 2H should be about playing smart on the front line and skirting between front and mid positions as RF and battlefield conditions dictate. The MAD forcing melee healers to play exclusively as melee for best effect is the primary problem and it's why I wish to see if the detaunt change mitigates so much risk that this secondary problem can't be solved. A future consideration may be adjusting the duration/cooldown mechanics of the AoE detaunt, depending on whether it's a problem or not.

Sorry but spamming Sigmar's Radience, Sigmars Fist, divine assault and Sigmars Vision is exactly how a Grace WP should be played. Making it a healer that generates resources through melee attacks just for the sake of it is useless, you go that way you might as well leave the WP as it it right now. It WAS supposed to do decent sustained damage, put just enough pressure on a target to not be ignored, and through the abilities used buff/heal the group.

@Thepollie: Grace is not a healer first and foremost. Its melee dps + support. (the support aspect added through the grace abilities is compensated by lower tooltip damage than e.g. Wrath or other dps careers).

[ThePollie]

Sorry but spamming Sigmar's Radience, Sigmars Fist, divine assault and Sigmars Vision is exactly how a Grace WP should be played. Making it a healer that generates resources through melee attacks just for the sake of it is useless, you go that way you might as well leave the WP as it it right now. It WAS supposed to do decent sustained damage, put just enough pressure on a target to not be ignored, and through the abilities used buff/heal the group.

Healing hand on me and two others, Sigmar's Fist, Castigation, Sigmar's Vision, Sigmar's Shield on any ally likely to be attacked, Weight of Guilt if snare needed, Divine Assault if someone is suddenly taking serious damage, Sigmar's Radiance to damage and heal allies, refresh Sigmar's Fist and Sigmar's Vision, shift or refresh Sigmar's Shield as needed, refresh Healing Hand when able.

Anyone who just jams their finger into Radiance will be a disappointment to glorious Sigmar.

[BrosephStylin]

Grace is not a pure healing spec though, and it never should be, that is Salvation. Grace is dps with heals as a added bonus. If anything must be buffed, it is the damage.

I've said this once, I'll say it again now, and I'll repeat it later when this nonsense is said again.


Grace is not DPS. Grace is a healer, first and foremost. It has just as much responsibility with healing as Salvation does. The damage portion of this mastery is because of the increased risk of being on the front line. Salvation doesn't do a lot of damage because it doesn't take a lot of risk.

Have you ever even played Grace? The heals are situation and are only active in melee fights, WHICH MEANS, in an organized guild warband, a grace WP WILL NEVER *EVER* be put into a healer position. Trust me, I've been playing grace wp in live and here, it does not happen. They will always be put into a dps slot, which means, they must do dps. They are dps spec, and no matter how much you buff their heals, they will never be a healer because their heals are far too infrequent.

[Rebuke]

Healing hand is a complete waste of a gcd with the 2 mandatory -20% healing tactics. Castigation/WoG is utter crap and a waste of 2 gcd's. Sigmars Shield is crap and more of a liability since you lose ALL control over your career resource. The rest you typed is just repeating what i already typed.

[ThePollie]

Have you ever even played Grace? The heals are situation and are only active in melee fights, WHICH MEANS, in an organized guild warband, a grace WP WILL NEVER *EVER* be put into a healer position. Trust me, I've been playing grace wp in live and here, it does not happen. They will always be put into a dps slot, which means, they must do dps. They are dps spec, and no matter how much you buff their heals, they will never be a healer because their heals are far too infrequent.

I'm not inclined to trust ****.

Healing hand is a complete waste of a gcd with the 2 mandatory -20% healing tactics. Castigation/WoG is utter crap and a waste of 2 gcd's. Sigmars Shield is crap and more of a liability since you lose ALL control over your career resource. The rest you typed is just repeating what i already typed.

It's roughly 1230 health restored, for up to three people. Castigation, even without Wrath mastery, improves an enemy's chance to be crit by up to 6%. Weight of Guilt snares, this can help tanks to get in range, help you stay in range, and help DPS get in range. Sigmar's Shield is intended to be buffed.

Sorry but spamming Sigmar's Radience, Sigmars Fist, divine assault and Sigmars Vision is exactly how a Grace WP should be played.

We do not just 'spam' any of these.

[BrosephStylin]

Have you ever even played Grace? The heals are situation and are only active in melee fights, WHICH MEANS, in an organized guild warband, a grace WP WILL NEVER *EVER* be put into a healer position. Trust me, I've been playing grace wp in live and here, it does not happen. They will always be put into a dps slot, which means, they must do dps. They are dps spec, and no matter how much you buff their heals, they will never be a healer because their heals are far too infrequent.

I'm not inclined to trust ****.

Healing hand is a complete waste of a gcd with the 2 mandatory -20% healing tactics. Castigation/WoG is utter crap and a waste of 2 gcd's. Sigmars Shield is crap and more of a liability since you lose ALL control over your career resource. The rest you typed is just repeating what i already typed.

It's roughly 1230 health restored, for up to three people. Castigation, even without Wrath mastery, improves an enemy's chance to be crit by up to 6%. Weight of Guilt snares, this can help tanks to get in range, help you stay in range, and help DPS get in range. Sigmar's Shield is intended to be buffed.

Sorry but spamming Sigmar's Radience, Sigmars Fist, divine assault and Sigmars Vision is exactly how a Grace WP should be played.

We do not just 'spam' any of these.

Ask any geared and well played Grace Warrior Priest ingame, they are always put into a dps slot within an organized warband. Melee healers are never put into heal slots, and if they do, they are asked to pick up a book and heal tactics.

[Azarael]

Could you tell me why you are posting about how Grace WP CURRENTLY is treated in a thread talking about its FUTURE direction?

[BrosephStylin]

Could you tell me why you are posting about how Grace WP CURRENTLY is treated in a thread talking about its FUTURE direction?

Because Grace WP is a melee dps with added heals, not a healer with added melee dps. Change that and you will effectively be NERFING the grace warrior priest, because they will never be a good dedicated healer due to unreliable heals and without good melee dps, they will be almost completely worthless. If anything must be buffed to keep the spec viable and different, it must be the damage and buffs grace provides.

[Azarael]

If you attempt to buff the damage and support instead of the heals, you risk moving the class into the classic hybrid position, in that its maximum healing output will not be competitive with a pure healer and as such you will not get any slot in any kind of group that wants to win.

I've said it so many times in this thread and I'm still waiting for a decent reply to it - nobody wants a hybrid. You either compete as a strong DPS or as a strong healer, but if you try to split evenly between two things, you suddenly are no longer good enough. The only way it actually works is if you are competitive at ONE thing and have the ability to do another thing, but with the balancing factor of risk involved.

The reason you have unreliable heals is because of MAD. Get kicked out of the front line and you're forced to rely on casted heals that were deliberately gimped thanks to crappy design choices. Again, it seems people are looking at the current state of the game and trying to dictate what the class' role is based on that. If playing Grace has too many simple counters, deal with that instead of trying to create a melee DPS out of a class that isn't competently designed around that ideal.

[BrosephStylin]

If you attempt to buff the damage and support instead of the heals, you risk moving the class into the classic hybrid position, in that its maximum healing output will not be competitive with a pure healer and as such you will not get any slot in any kind of group that wants to win.

I've said it so many times in this thread and I'm still waiting for a decent reply to it - nobody wants a hybrid. You either compete as a strong DPS or as a strong healer, but if you try to split evenly between two things, you suddenly are no longer good enough. The only way it actually works is if you are competitive at ONE thing and have the ability to do another thing, but with the balancing factor of risk involved.

The reason you have unreliable heals is because of MAD. Get kicked out of the front line and you're forced to rely on casted heals that were deliberately gimped thanks to crappy design choices. Again, it seems people are looking at the current state of the game and trying to dictate what the class' role is based on that. If playing Grace has too many simple counters, deal with that instead of trying to create a melee DPS out of a class that isn't competently designed around that ideal.

What? It is already a COMPLETE classic hyrbid, with me doing almost the exact amount of damage as heals in every scenario I do. That is why I am saying buff the damage, to move it into a dps/buff role with the added bonus of heals and protection. This will allow grace wps to be properly placed in organized guild dps positions, instead of them just filling gaps as they do right now. Buffing the heals WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR ORVR POSITION. Melee healers are terrible healers for orvr, because them getting close during melee is rare and shortlived, with ranged healers healing constantly.