Questions regarding Leading Shots and Dity Tricks

[Nanji]

read better next time

Stop right there, it is already hard to read any of the nonsense you write.
If anyone is not allowed to ask people to read their stuff more carefully it is you.

ye i remember something like that about the ib/sm swap which was to tell orders that something was so op that you could also chance all your ib for the sub SM and you could still win any wb fight.
The exploit part is a your invetion (maybe i just compared the crit to an exploit and you remember wrong)

Don't throw **** at other ppl with out screen anyway...

Nobody told you? There is a reason why SM was viable in t2 and due to him you crit very often.
Also I am not going to go through 1,7k of utter bs posts to prove sth to you.


concerning the chosen buff that people cry for atm:

Make a new topic, there are several good reasons why chosen doesnt need a buff. We can gather them there.

[Penril]

If you have problems with Rampage, then i will simply give up on this discussion.

Sir, you won. Have a cookie.

i know rampage can be cleanse by BG/BO :/

just the variable when build a destru tank are higer then build a kotbs and on the field the shatter enchantment still need to cleanse rampage which is not a 100% chance to happen.

Fixed. IB and SM have as much variables as the destro tanks. KotBS however doesn't need to worry about Str thanks to Runefang + Emperor's Champion. They can go full armor/toughness/wounds/deftard and still achieve around 800 Str.

[Tesq]

@nanji i have a sm i know the proc on crit skill :/
also i red what you wrote, i understand your points and i answered you according to those.
Blast wave is very good on paper but it's not so easy to apply (well yea x 4 chosen make this happen better even if some order tanks get the heal debuff in places of dps while all group member of the order party get always the crit buff :/
No one asked for a chosen buff, if done it with blast wave that it's not a buff, it's a fix :/
While im kinda the only one asking for super punt on chosen/kobs nerf quite the 100% fo the time, im actually ask for a chosen nerf in this regard.

What ppl want it's a kobs nerf, someone want nerf it in some ways that for me are too much, self utility on tanks should not be touch until group play is fair and balanced at least a little better than now

@penrl you fixed nothing i alredy told you with one of those text wall you like so much why it's not that way

Back to lv my wh now

:/

[Penril]

Penrli i do really try to have constructive discussionz with you but you really make it hard...

i do refer to base block value

kobs +10%
bg--> no
chosen--> no
sm-->+10%
IB+10%
BO +15/20%

SM would be +5/10%.

Also, you mention Suppression is not reliable because you need to hit in order to buff your parry and if you fail it has a 10 sec CD. Well guess what: It works just like Shield Rush (10% block for KotBS). So if you are disregarding Suppression, then you should also disregard Shield Rush. So it comes down to:

kobs--> no
bg--> no
chosen--> no
sm-->+5/10% block/parry
IB+10% block
BO +15/20% block/parry

OR

kobs +10% block
bg--> no
chosen +25% parry
sm-->+5/10% block/parry
IB+10% block
BO +15/20% block/parry

As for Mixed Defenses requiring you to block... come on Tesq. Any good tank that is actively swapping guard will be blocking all the time, so MD has an uptime of pretty much 100%. In that case:

kobs +10% block
bg--> no
chosen +50% parry
sm-->+5/10% block/parry
IB+10% block
BO +15/20% block/parry

You only need rr20 to have maxed Parry (renown skill). That makes your parry about 68%.

I'll let you do the math. I'll just say that i'd rather have 40% block/68% parry than having 50% block/33% parry

[Tesq]

The more the game progress the more that block value will became better and it will proprotionally

- yes kobs shield rush also need to land but it's the only self buff that need to,which is different for chosen that need to keep apply, oppression + suppression + blast wave other than the tank base work.
All kobs other tools are passive or self cast and so do not requrie to land; which let him just focus on land that SR ; chosen armor buff need to land and can be also removed which is not the case for kobs ( i know is not so much important but we are talk about def pattern)
Also with only that you alredy have block buffed at max and your def pattern is alredy done for 10 seconds.

-It's not only that block it's better, destru have less defense ingore/debuff than order, which make a block based tank better than a parry chosen.
This at least until you reach sov, that make multiple def tanks on pair with block based tank

-I'm not saying that mixed defesne it's unreliable due to block, i'm saying that you need to effective use it to stack high both block and parry which points cost it's not efficent. Due the fact the most of times those defense will get bypassed + the fact that a 10% more or a 20% with dedicated equip can save more guard damage than that 68% parry cos can prevent better ranged damage

-Then i need to use a tactic slot which could be used to get other stuff:
So, so far for having a working def pattern i needed to put more effort for gain the same defense % of a kobs., because what i gained in defense vs melee i lost it vs ranged attacks and all my defense can be easily ignored.

[Penril]

The more the game progress the more that block value will became better and it will proprotionally

- yes kobs shield rush also need to land but it's the only self buff than need to land which is different for chosen, all his other tools are passive or self cast that not requrie to land which let him just focus on land that SR while need to to more active stuff around (appart from the base cc work everytank must do), chosen armor buff need to land and can be cleanse which is not the case for kobs ( i know is not so much important but we are talk about def pattern so)
Also with only that you alredy have block buffed at max and your def pattern is alredy done for 10 seconds.

-It's not only that block it's better, destru have less defense ingore/debuff than order, which make a block based tank better than a parry chosen.

Let me stop you right there. First you said "destro has less block than order". I proved you wrong and did your work for you by posting all the +block skills/tactics on all tanks. Now you say "yes but KotBS has other passive tools" which of course have nothing to do with Block/or parry. I'm assuming you are talking about Dirty Tricks, Encouraged Aim, Focused Mending, etc. In this case i agree with you, however this has NOTHING to do with block and doesn't prove your point that order has more block than destro. Finally, you say Destro has less defense ignore/debuffs than order. Well then, i hope you can post them all here so we can compare. Until you do so, this is only another "destro has less block than order" claim. I'm not gonna do your work again.

This at least until you reach sov, that make multiple def tanks on pair with block based tank

-I'm not saying that the tactic is unreliable due to block i'm saying that you need to effective use it to stack high both block and parry which points cost it's not efficent. Due the fact the most of times those defense will get bypassed + the fact that a 10% more or a 20% with dedicated equip can save more guard damage than that 68% parry cos can prevent better ranged damage

This makes no sense. Guard damage can be parried regardless of the source (ranged, magic, melee). 40% block/68% parry will avoid more guard damage than 50% block/33% parry.

-Then i need to use a tactic slot which could be used to get other stuff so so far for haveing a working def pattern i needed to put more effort for gain the same defense % of a kobs., becouse what i gain in defense vs melee i lost it vs ranged attacks and all my defense can be easily ignored.

This not a Chosen problem, but a KotBS one (they are OP).

[Tesq]

You proved nothing, the bg defensive pattern is based on a 10/30 sec skill rotation and not on block : kobs, IB, bo, SM can spec block all with a 10% or more buff chance which can be made active 100% of the time; channeling are panic button and not spamable active/passive defense.

You are the one then that removed the kobs block buff assuimg that is the same as chosen oppresion which is not due the different amount of the proc you require to have for an efficent parry rating. And the difference in how much you invest or need to invest in it. ( 1 tactic vs 0 tactic / 40 renown points vs 20 renown points)

Because you cannot go around with lol block even if under guard you still proc well mixed defesne... don't having a block buff but still also need to stack parry because you are a parry based tank it require a lot of investiment in renow points...points that other block based tanks can invest otherwise....which chosen can't

40% block and 68% parry does not always prevent more damage than a 50% block alone


You have a 10% more chance to stop melee/ranged and magic attacks better than chosen which on guards damage can be better depending from the damage source. On live any tanks can tell how much a 10% more on block was a life changing. IF here on ror it will be different fine ( i see difference anyway here on ror on how much defense proc)

The fact that i needed to slot 1 tactic is not only a kobs problem, i can even heavily invest in it but i also want it to be usefull and not get my defense ingore by x8 slayer in every wb around :/
You may think i'm a def tard if i fear dps under heals, but all the talk started about order tanks which can use better challenges than destru tanks and not about damages.
And rampage is one of the main problem regarding this. Also the fact that CS dont stack with challenge it's even badder.
Because it mean that not only my challenge will be remove more easily, so it mean destru tank need more coordination to always keep challenge active, but we also don't have a tool to fill this gap.

It's not only a question of how much i have it's also a question how much it matter regard my opponents debuff/ingore.

same talk of sorc vs bw, it's not only a fact of who got the bigger damage but instead how much these can be counterd well better delivered.

Think about it and anyway i know you may see/think differently than me on this but just say that, you dont need to win any war with me on this really :/

[Azarael]

You have a 10% more chance to stop melee/ranged and magic attacks better than chosen which on guards damage can be better depending from the damage source.

Guard is ALWAYS a melee attack from within your frontal cone, regardless of the source of the damage that triggered it.

[Penril]

You may think i'm a def tard if i fear dps under heals, but all the talk started about order tanks which can use better challenges than destru tanks and not about damages.
And rampage is one of the main problem regarding this. Also the fact that CS dont stack with challenge it's even badder.
Because it mean that not only my challenge will be remove more easily, so it mean destru tank need more coordination to always keep challenge active, but we also don't have a tool to fill this gap.

Oh God... you just pointed out the reason why Crippling Strikes is not as bad you think and you can't even see it.

[noisestorm]

I think i'll just butt in and drop this one for the lulz: (dont mind me if this was already posted somewhere)

Don't normally Order tanks also have a challenge they can keep up 24/7 making CS look even less desirable compared to the supposedly Kotbs crit counterpart? : D