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[SM] Phoenix's Wing

For proposals that have been rejected.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

[SM] Phoenix's Wing

Post#1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:04 pm

Problems:
1-2h build for orvr is pretty much weak in comparison to any sm s+b build
2-but it have this dedicated skill (per title)
3-it is the only skill which is both aoe and requrie 2h
4-no other really good aoe synergy to justify his cost in mastery
5-no synergy which justify his requiring stance
6-ap starving build due to keep up the spam
7-great limit your mastery picks due requiring the one more stance swap skill protection of hoeth + more avoidance from tactics since Wods cant proc any nature sword buff/debuff
8-same buff/debuff avaiable to s+b exept that you loose hold the line while not gain a lot in return.
9-wrath of hoeth can take is place at the right condition for s+b so there is no need to take 2h risk tod ot he same things.


Points:
The sm in orvr is pretty much relegated to s+b , all order tanks are pretty much that s+b thing which spam hold the line, there is really no 2h tank for orvr as noone have a fair trade of for hold the line, in this particular case all the buff avaiable to sm in s+b are too in 2h so basically for rvr there is no really any compenstion for loosing hold the line (as support tool) whil wods worsk as compensation for loosing htl as def tool. It have this skill tough which requrie an huge ammount to be used as it requrie first a skill to move from no stance4 to improved stance and then all over again.
I tested this build which consist of get use of this skill and spam it the mroe i can to have an advantage on the debuff part by be able to keep up the stats steals more easily whiel also supporting a bit offensive the wb.

The build around the skill, leaving aside htl loss, it still have 2 great weakness ap consumption and the skill requiring improved stance.
While starving for ap can be see as the right weakness for he build and a trade off for what you could achive the improvement stance requirement for the skill just limit all the purpose of the build the skill itself have no palce in any st build and anny orvr build will build a round a s+b sM with the reduction, definetly a build doen around this skill is lackluster which is bad as it is the only aoe skill designed to be used in 2h so it should requrie an advantage in return

Solutions:

1- As it is done on right mastery the 9pt mastery skill instead move from improved to perfect balance should move you from no balance into improved balance (this will make the skill spamable and always lead you into improved stance).

pro:
-it will give 2h build in orvr/wb fights a meaning as buff/debuff based on rng hitting multiple ppl are easer to keep up (but buff/debuff remain the same)
-it will be a offensive trade off for the def provided on other with hold the line. (less dodge/disrupt for aoe dmg attacks)
-can use st tactics for increase dmg aswell, tough full offensive tanks in orvr tend to explode.

contr:
-since it is spamabale it will still suffer from ap issues .
-due the skill always lead you into improved stance you will always never be able to use it to full potential since the avoidance tactics especially disrupt one (which is important for a 2h SM in orvr) will never stay at max potential most of time, So use P'sW skill have inbuild weakness (attacks trade for avoidane)
-you will always never be able to use it indefinetly as class have no ap gain tactic and the ap reduction cost work only on improved skill which now the skill wont be anymore.

2- make it requiring perfect balance and leading to no balance, this will be a softer buff than number 1 but it will require to use wrath of hoeth to keep up the aoe spam instead, minus 5 ap every aoe attack (since if moved to perfect balance P'sW would cost no ap so both would cost 27 ap each) but more floating avoidnce, honestly not a fan of this solution. What can be achived with this can eb done in solution 1 as ap management will limit spam anyway...

pro:
-use more regulary the meccanic as it follow allthe stance chain till it reset and start over again
-solution 2 is more ap consume friendly than solution 1 (55+ ap on 2 skill vs 60+ and requiring dance swappers)
-can be made ap friendly even more than solution 1 if use the tactic adept movements(since the the ap cut is higer).

contr: as solution number 1

N.B: atm s+b builds are also prefered since wrath of hoeth even if have an higer ap cost can take the place of phoenix's wing since both are improved skill and hold the line cost less than wods so the same build based on aoe spam attack is better in s+b than in 2h because WoH + htl >= PsW + wods with ap management and tank prowless (and most likely access to cd reduction which if you try to make a build around phoenix's wing you wont have right now).

N.B.B: i think is fancy for both realm to have access to a 2h viable tank for orvr/wb,like destru side have BG give some love to 2h SM for orvr could be nice

BG: spam aoe /loose hate which is equal to loose avoidance on tactics
SM: spam aoe/ loose ap +stance dance which is equal to loose avoidance since stance dance make avoidance float on tactics and wosd is ap based and it cost more than htl)

Spoiler:
to circle the client modification problem a new created skill with same/coevalent effect can be given in place of the mastery one since there are client's limitation on what can be done for skill alredy part of specific mastery; so create a new skill with same/new icon and those/coevalent effects; or can wait for a long term fix when client controll is ready.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [SM] Phoenix's Wing

Post#2 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:15 pm

Declining.

Phoenix Wing is incredibly potent as it is already, and going from Improved-Perfect is an integral part of maximising DPS rotation/going from AoE cleave/spread into a single-target/focus Ether Dance.

You can use Phoenix Wing every 2/3 seconds if you use SS/bubble correctly.

Phoenix Wing was changed to do spirit damage already, and it is also worth nothing its potency for PvE (extra hate).

Given its potency, it should be in the 2nd stance imo. Moving it into normal stance would make it a spammable AoE spirit ability. Khaine SM is incredibly potent, and always guaranteed a spot in smaller encounters. We should be thinking of ways to make Vaul more attractive for WB play.

I get where you're coming from, but I feel that a Khaine SM can sorta play the role of an AoE cleaver with Potent Enchantments + WoH + PW. The damage is insane. I don't think something this potent should be spammable.

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