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Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

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DanielWinner
Posts: 727
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#31 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:29 am

M4 - Khaine's Warding - Tank Tree

Current - 100' party buff, when any group member blocks heal group for 1200, 10s duration
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 20% for 10s, BG also receives 3000pt absorb for 10s and 100 Hate
This moral is totally fine as it is. I could even say this is one of the reasons why BG can be useful at Keep’s/Fort’s pushes/funnels. The class lacks group utility which is related to skills and tactics. 2nd tree moral is good same as unique and has its own use which is quite great since in some cases it could be better than core m4.
So that change is unnecessary.
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Custonello
Posts: 37

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#32 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:58 am

[Disclaimer] I do not play any tank.
Spoiler:

But i do play one hell of a mean WP, and playing that WP i noticed that we often do changes in this game to either make a class stronger, weaker, or in all change their purpose. This is commonly done by changing their ability's or tactics. What is not so often seen is a change of armor or the possibility to build said character in different ways only by changing your armor stats. I personly would like to see more armor sets with a larger variety of stats. The reason why im mentioning this is because, as most of us know is warhammer NOT a mirror class game. Even though a lot of the classes are build up with a counterpart in pursue of making a balanced game, they are not identical. By comparing the classes and factions and putting them up against each others its clear that some classes have certain abilitys and tactics that makes them have an the stronger. Same abilitys that are proberly making them unieqe. WE play our toons because of those unieqe abilityes and choose to log onto different characters when we need them, "etc the group cleanse from wp".

I myself loved when the grace spec got changed. Not because it was bad before. but because we got NEW armor sets. I can now totaly rework my character without doing to much changing in my abilitys, meaning i can become a tanky wp, a dps wp, a crit wp, i mean you name it. It took me alot of time and effort to figure out what was good. It took me alot of time and effort to get the talisman needed. It took alot of time and effort to get the pots i needed for the different sets. I had a blast building up this toon. And its now a high ranked dps WP. But... sometimes my abilitys change... and when that happens i have to change my whole armor set. My pots and what so, all to fuffill the ROLE I'm equiped for. Now what I'm trying to (poorly I know, it's hard explaining ones idears with text) get at, is that a focus on new varieties of rings and other gear gives the players a bigger opportunity to decide what they are lacking. All players have different experience as how to play the game and whats working for them or not. But in my eyes the players do not get to choose between alot of posibilitys to change their toons in drastic ways without it happening via ability changes.

Now to the Tanks...
I agree that orders tank morales deal more damage that destro. Is this a problem? no!? why do you play the game as it was 2009. stop morale pushing. It's as if you think thats the only way to play this game. If you wanna compensate then give destro some armor sets that have more armor, or toughness. I don't believe that changing the abilitys is the solve for this problem.

great work from the devs. I see a nice post with good reasoning and already idears on how the changes can be made. This shows me as a player that the devs are thinking of what they are doing and how. on top of that they ask the community. What can make me anxious is that you choose to tell us how you will do the changes :) makes idiots think your just going to do it anyways. And when this thread is closed and decided they will be shouting from the top of their lungs that you inteded to do it all along with or withouth feedback :)
Then this isn't the thread for you.
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Smellybelly
Posts: 298

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#33 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:47 am

The only thing im really worried about is the Ironbreaker disarm moral ability, it will be yet another mindless aoe immunity machinegun. We have enough maguses and engineers who toss out immunities with little regard to tactics or need to cc, making tanking very annoying.

Please reconsider this :shock:

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Mordecaieth
Posts: 139
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#34 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:05 pm

If Swordmasters get to keep their pounce and get a shiny new pull I demand the "Wings of Gork!" For all my black ork brothers out there.

On a more serious and non-troll note: it's just my opinion but I think the initial proposal of the chosen receiving the Knights mirror was a better idea than giving it to the blackguard, I am also happy with the additional reworks of the black ork morale 4's. Again the development team has done a good job and is proposing more unique reworks.

My only qualm and my opinion, please give the knight morale mirror to the chosen.

Thank you for all your hard work.

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normanis
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#35 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:22 pm

i played as sm tank s/b . and played with my black orc. both i like as tanks. ( i will not tell orc build morale 4 faster than sm) byt why sm need pounce? where u would pounce in wb situations. ( in solo yes u can jump even on walls i even witneset it byt outside solo play i dont see its usufulness). banish weakness is more biased to elfs not punce ( there is eunugh puncers in game already , i heard slayer also will get it ( i hope not)). sm morales is weakest for deftard tank m3 600 absorb - weak compared to ib.chosen/bg. morale4 id 65% defense is good because only chosen/orc will use it (because they faster grow it) bg as tank need use some ather morale like absorb 4k because dok in party will use tousand and 1 blessing.
P.s will order also will be awailable build morale with tactic and drain it with tactic or it destro biased tactics. atherway i see all these changes for funnel positions where both sides will grow morale4 and push/counter. ( outside it in normal fight order never reach morale 4 vs destro)
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#36 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:39 pm

ahzzag wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:40 pm You wont bring usefulness with this m4- In Malekith's Name to an BG in WB play cause you may be forced to play this Moral at the top of an orvr crap tree, while leaving most useful, not even comparable other useful 2h BG Debuffs behind. If i could chose i would prefer to leave this as it is and not to be told by WB Leaders to spec an crap tree cause of one Moral 4.

Maybe this is just my personal perspective on this one.
i am with you. the moral is misplaced in the tree, for technical reasons it would be better in malice.
Spoiler:
DanielWinner wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:29 am
M4 - Khaine's Warding - Tank Tree

Current - 100' party buff, when any group member blocks heal group for 1200, 10s duration
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 20% for 10s, BG also receives 3000pt absorb for 10s and 100 Hate
This moral is totally fine as it is. I could even say this is one of the reasons why BG can be useful at Keep’s/Fort’s pushes/funnels. The class lacks group utility which is related to skills and tactics. 2nd tree moral is good same as unique and has its own use which is quite great since in some cases it could be better than core m4.
So that change is unnecessary.
i also agree with that one, the actual state of the moral on top of the tree fits a nice sheme and has great potantial

careless
Posts: 5

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#37 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:17 pm

@author of the proposal, please scrap every idea you suggested. this is f*cking horrible ideas.

perhaps get someone abit more experienced(doesn't seem like whoever thought this up even plays the game) to make proposals and present them for discussion.

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#38 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:18 pm

Custonello wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:58 am [Disclaimer] I do not play any tank.
Spoiler:

But i do play one hell of a mean WP, and playing that WP i noticed that we often do changes in this game to either make a class stronger, weaker, or in all change their purpose. This is commonly done by changing their ability's or tactics. What is not so often seen is a change of armor or the possibility to build said character in different ways only by changing your armor stats. I personly would like to see more armor sets with a larger variety of stats. The reason why im mentioning this is because, as most of us know is warhammer NOT a mirror class game. Even though a lot of the classes are build up with a counterpart in pursue of making a balanced game, they are not identical. By comparing the classes and factions and putting them up against each others its clear that some classes have certain abilitys and tactics that makes them have an the stronger. Same abilitys that are proberly making them unieqe. WE play our toons because of those unieqe abilityes and choose to log onto different characters when we need them, "etc the group cleanse from wp".

I myself loved when the grace spec got changed. Not because it was bad before. but because we got NEW armor sets. I can now totaly rework my character without doing to much changing in my abilitys, meaning i can become a tanky wp, a dps wp, a crit wp, i mean you name it. It took me alot of time and effort to figure out what was good. It took me alot of time and effort to get the talisman needed. It took alot of time and effort to get the pots i needed for the different sets. I had a blast building up this toon. And its now a high ranked dps WP. But... sometimes my abilitys change... and when that happens i have to change my whole armor set. My pots and what so, all to fuffill the ROLE I'm equiped for. Now what I'm trying to (poorly I know, it's hard explaining ones idears with text) get at, is that a focus on new varieties of rings and other gear gives the players a bigger opportunity to decide what they are lacking. All players have different experience as how to play the game and whats working for them or not. But in my eyes the players do not get to choose between alot of posibilitys to change their toons in drastic ways without it happening via ability changes.

Now to the Tanks...
I agree that orders tank morales deal more damage that destro. Is this a problem? no!? why do you play the game as it was 2009. stop morale pushing. It's as if you think thats the only way to play this game. If you wanna compensate then give destro some armor sets that have more armor, or toughness. I don't believe that changing the abilitys is the solve for this problem.

great work from the devs. I see a nice post with good reasoning and already idears on how the changes can be made. This shows me as a player that the devs are thinking of what they are doing and how. on top of that they ask the community. What can make me anxious is that you choose to tell us how you will do the changes :) makes idiots think your just going to do it anyways. And when this thread is closed and decided they will be shouting from the top of their lungs that you inteded to do it all along with or withouth feedback :)
Then this isn't the thread for you.
Even if you dont play a tank, everyone plays with tanks and is effected by tanks. So I would say your comment is wrong.

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Parallell86
Posts: 241

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#39 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:55 pm

This **** is so one-sided its redicilous. I smell Order RQ.

Nerf Order, super buff Destro.

How hard are we supposed to play to compete with destro? We already burn our brains out finding compilations that works against the melee training superzerg with broken pulls, aoe morale draining, aoe debuffs of EVERY kind, AOE punts that wont even trigger immunity.

Black Orc M3 - Deafeaning Bellow, 1200 damage with silence converted to 1500 damage and build up time debuff that lasts for 10 sec.
Knight M3 - No escape, 1200 damage and 10 sec root nerfed to 900 damage and 5 sec root.


Can you explain your thoughts here?

Now nerfing Order tank morales with the **** guts to buff Destro tanks, most of all Black orc in the process. How hard do we need to play to compete with destro?

If this goes through, Im done. And Im not the only one. Have fun chasing 6 mans in the zone Destro.
Last edited by Parallell86 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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s0und
Posts: 30

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#40 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Nice, another nerf for order and buff for destro... stupid! Start bleeding players
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