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[Dev] Tank morale overhaul

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Xergon
Posts: 798

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#111 » Fri May 10, 2019 1:23 pm

Collateral wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 7:48 am
Xergon wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 1:06 amAre you trolling or are you just ignorant ? or both ?
"I die because group of ppl press 1 button ?" So you want to tank zillion ppl because you think you should cuz you spent time to gear up your character ? Cmon man be real for sec... Even as guild premade WB is hard to execute proper morale drop in zerg fights not only because enemy use CC but also because body blocking from allies is annoying.
If you have 11k wounds (which every serious Tank in RvR should have) so thats like 10x 1200 Morals2 or 7x 1800 Morals4 (Slayer) im not gonna consider talking about 2400 Morals4 because classes that can do that are not WB viable...
So please dont tell me that you die to 1 button, you die to 10 ppl executing/coordinating proper moral drop, which you can very easily interrupt.
I've been playing in organized wbs for 3 years here, most of that time spent in a hardcore environment, so yes clearly I'm trolling...And what's with that attitude? I have no quarrels with you.

You must be the one who is trolling, since I don't know how you can even say that coordinated morales in zerg fights can be "easily interrupted". Be my guest in interrupting instant morales, and when people have immunities from all the randoms spamming punts and staggers. And no it's not hard to do a morale drop in a proper organized wb that knows what it's doing, give me a break. One person literally has to do a count down, then everyone pushes their button, it's that simple. Even in chat you can do a count down, and if half the people listen it's enough. Keep in mind that this doesn't HAVE to happen instantly, it can be in succesion (and usually is cuz only robots could to it instantly), meaning 3-4 people at a time. Body blocking is a non-issue, you need a couple seconds at most to come into position. Plus most morales have good enough range to be effective even if you're body blocked.

I never said I wanted to tank a million people. I said I would rather die from abilities than instant, unmitigatable damage. I have no problem with dying. But I have a problem when the game trivialises things. And instant morale damage is trivialising rvr, and has always been. That's why I would rather see tanks getting morales that buff damage/crits/defenses/resists or debuff damage/healing and what not. Keep in mind that morales stack with everything else, so there is potential for some great synergies.
It annoys me when ppl who suppose to have knowledge about game mechanics specially in RvR environment complain about silly and stupid things like this... So what do you suggest ? Removing DMG morales ? Do you even thought about this for a sec, what impact it would had ? Fights would last endlessly... Cmon man again i ask you for some reasoning and thinking about bigger picture...
I can agree only on 1 thing, archetypes should define what morales that class should posses, that means, DMG morales should be tied only to DPS archetypes, Tank should posses Control/Protect morales and Healers should have access to Healing/Protecting ones, ofcourse there can be couple exception cause each mastery path for each class varies towards Defensive, Offensive or Utility path.
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Collateral
Posts: 1494

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#112 » Fri May 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Xergon wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 1:23 pmIt annoys me when ppl who suppose to have knowledge about game mechanics specially in RvR environment complain about silly and stupid things like this... So what do you suggest ? Removing DMG morales ? Do you even thought about this for a sec, what impact it would had ? Fights would last endlessly... Cmon man again i ask you for some reasoning and thinking about bigger picture...
I can agree only on 1 thing, archetypes should define what morales that class should posses, that means, DMG morales should be tied only to DPS archetypes, Tank should posses Control/Protect morales and Healers should have access to Healing/Protecting ones, ofcourse there can be couple exception cause each mastery path for each class varies towards Defensive, Offensive or Utility path.
If a push of one button to change to the tide of battle isn't stupid to you, fine. But to me it is and I will express my dissatisfaction. Opinions can differ, and that's why we are here, and why devs opened the thread for discussion. So there's no reason to call people ignorant or stupid. If devs don't like my ideas, and I am wrong in my assessments, they won't consider them, very simple.

What I suggested is removing damage morales for tanks (at least m4s would be a good start), and doing something other than 'ap restore', 'group bubble' and all those run of the mill abilities we all know and no one uses. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but that would be a step in the right direction for me. I said 'let dps deal damage and let tanks tank'. So you see that we agree in the end. Earthen renewal is a good example of what I meant, and the new kotbs m2 that I think is far too strong for m2, bo m2 is also not bad. Those kind of effects is what I would like, something with flavour, something you can build around.

But again, for this to work properly a host of other things need to be changed. Balance can very easily be tipped with these kind of changes, like Wam pointed out. So the bigger picture HAS to be looked at.

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Natherul
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Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#113 » Sat May 11, 2019 7:39 am

Wam wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 12:40 pm a lot of text
Thanks Wam, this is feedback that we like and want.

For anyone reading this comments where you just express a dislike is mostly ignored as we want feedback as to why.

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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#114 » Sat May 11, 2019 7:48 am

Natherul wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 7:39 am
Wam wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 12:40 pm a lot of text
Thanks Wam, this is feedback that we like and want.

For anyone reading this comments where you just express a dislike is mostly ignored as we want feedback as to why.
Really think ignoring negative feedback just because it disagrees with you makes this entire ‘balance suggestion’ thing a farce. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who plays in an organized fashion why most of these changes are bad.

If 98% of feedback is negative do the reasons really matter?
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Natherul
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Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#115 » Sat May 11, 2019 7:52 am

Manatikik wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 7:48 am
Natherul wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 7:39 am
Wam wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 12:40 pm a lot of text
Thanks Wam, this is feedback that we like and want.

For anyone reading this comments where you just express a dislike is mostly ignored as we want feedback as to why.
Really think ignoring negative feedback just because it disagrees with you makes this entire ‘balance suggestion’ thing a farce. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who plays in an organized fashion why most of these changes are bad.

If 98% of feedback is negative do the reasons really matter?
This is not a thread for discussions apart from sticking to OP but Ill answer this.
Yes we do not care for -1 or +1, Thats even stated prior so should not be news to anyone.

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Warfare80
Posts: 220

Re: [Dev] Tank morale overhaul

Post#116 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:04 pm

Do we have a ETA on this baby? :)
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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: [Dev] Tank morale overhaul

Post#117 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:31 pm

I think before you touch morales, you should fix the morale drain unbalance in the game. I mean it's pointless to touch solar flare before marauder's morale drain nerfed/balanced to both sides. Rest of the suggestion doesn't really matters, I mean it can go either way and only time will tell which change is good or bad. But for this unbalance, it is here, we see it, we experience it for years, it's gamebreaking for organized warband play.
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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: [Dev] Tank morale overhaul

Post#118 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:45 pm

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kmark101 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:31 pm I think before you touch morales, you should fix the morale drain unbalance in the game. I mean it's pointless to touch solar flare before marauder's morale drain nerfed/balanced to both sides. Rest of the suggestion doesn't really matters, I mean it can go either way and only time will tell which change is good or bad. But for this unbalance, it is here, we see it, we experience it for years, it's gamebreaking for organized warband play.
To echo this post, WB tanks don’t really get morales above M1 sort of M2s unless they slot morale gear. Even then the only fights that require or last long enough for M4 are Fort/Keep funnel situations or some evenly matched guild v. guild warband fights.

This is fine if that is as intended, just figured I would mention that powerful damage M4s are something that requires tanks to spec less than optimal builds and gear to get, all the while being hit with drains.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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normanis
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Re: [Dev] Tank morale overhaul

Post#119 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:14 pm

i just have question when order also get morale drain similar to mara. in my expierence u cant reach morale 1 if mara drain u to 0. all what order have is m4 what drain morales byt u need to build it first. i dont get why sm morale 3 is crappy 3600 absorb for 10 sec its morale 3 not morale 1. even choppa morale 1 is 20 sec with same absorb. why cant use same morale 3 as bg have. and sm dont need grp morale 1 increase armor ( armor dont protect from magich or maby its protect.) 20sec +120 tougness is good for sm morale 1. sm morale 4 what pull in - hm .
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Warfare80
Posts: 220

Re: [Dev] Tank morale overhaul

Post#120 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:17 pm

Tbh i cant remember ive ever had m4 against organized destro WBs. Im happy if i can reach m2. But usually im drained.
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