[All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough

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Koha
Posts: 106

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#151 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:43 pm

Spierron wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:00 pm
Koha wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:06 pm
Try to solo kill a DOK heal with a melee dps without healdebuff...
Dok heal who doesn't use his detaunt/cleanse or any control, any melee dps kill him easily without healdebuff but for sorc/magus/bw they have no certainty of killing him because the chance to disrupt the dot or dd is too high
''kill him easily'' ''too high'' are not valuable arguments
Let's agree to disagree
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Flavorburst
Posts: 68

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#152 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:46 pm

Spoiler:
Spierron wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:23 pm
Another example about disrupt on heal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayC7ZU ... e=youtu.be

go to 4:30

don't use detaunt/cleanse or not play with LoS and stay alive easily against magical rdps, legit ?
Wildly off topic, but I appreciated the Carpenter Brut at that timestamp <3

sn3jk
Posts: 43

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#153 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:06 am

Don't know if this has already been adressed, if so I apologize for bringing it up again.

My opinion on disrupt(and all form of defense really) is that utility/CC abilities should not be defendable. HOWEVER, this might be troublesome if implemented in a game such as warhammer, with a big focus on hold the line in largescale fights.

My philosophy is that: less random element is always better, and as it stands now it's way too much random going on with every class(some getting hit harder than others). A failed selfpunt, root, knockdown etc can easily mean the difference between a win and loss, and without really any skill involved since it's just luck.

Damage abilities however I can understand having mechanics for avoid as a way to mitigate damage, even if I would prefer just flat decreasing the damage output instead(this wont work in war though considering the math behind the damage calculations and how integral part of the game avoidance is).
I do however feel that dots should not be disruptable twice, explanation below:

ab 1, fireball 3s cast 1000 dmg
ab 2, dot 9 sec duration 1000 dmg

Lets say the enemy we are hitting has 20% disrupt, this means that the overall damage of both the fireball and the dot would be 800. The problem with that is that the dot actually calculates its disrupt twice, once on application and once on tics, which gives it a bigger damage reduction than the fireball gets. This "double disrupt" gets exponentially better the higher disrupt the defender has, which is also a problem with regards to balancing dots since it's not a linear curve as is the case with a single disruptcheck.

A possible problem with removing the initial avoid on dots is in the case of rotten arrer, where having an undefendable HD might be a tad too strong. Instead you could remove the dirsupt of the tics, which might be a better solution for this exact reason.

Sorry for the long rambling, im just passionate about math and stuff :|

edit: spelling
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Flavorburst
Posts: 68

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#154 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am

adamthelc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 am
There should be upside AND a downside to how you build a character. Right now what is the downside for a healer to putting a lot into disrupt?
You get rekt by mdps.

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Lileldys
Posts: 541

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#155 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:45 am

Flavorburst wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am
adamthelc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 am
There should be upside AND a downside to how you build a character. Right now what is the downside for a healer to putting a lot into disrupt?
You get rekt by mdps.
Not really. 20 Renown points for 18% dodge+disrupt is a really good investment for dealing with RDPS, while 30pts in reduced chance to be crit + armour talis protect you from melee dps.
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lefze
Posts: 543

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#156 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:57 am

Lileldys wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:45 am
Flavorburst wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am
adamthelc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 am
There should be upside AND a downside to how you build a character. Right now what is the downside for a healer to putting a lot into disrupt?
You get rekt by mdps.
Not really. 20 Renown points for 18% dodge+disrupt is a really good investment for dealing with RDPS, while 30pts in reduced chance to be crit + armour talis protect you from melee dps.
Don't even need 4 deft defender right now though, get by just fine with 2 or 3. Seriously, there is no need to invest balls deep to counter rdps.

So for example on a dok, you can just invest more in ini/FS/wounds and become basically unkillable as you sit at insane disrupt rates anyways, combined with the conq proc.
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anarchypark
Posts: 650

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#157 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:35 am

What if I collect videos of my WP with 50+% disrupt get blown up by sorc/magus ?
does it prove anything ?

fyi, avoidance in this game happens as chain a lot.
here is my theory.
avoidance is 30% , you hit 100 times.
at the 90th hit, avoid has only occurred 20th. ( because it's random )
last 10 hits are chain avoid in a row.
to catch up 30% number.

at the low hp, this catch up is accelerated.
cuz it had to fill 30% b4 death.
just my theory.

I think defensive tanks saw this many times.
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Hargrim
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Posts: 1598

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#158 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:47 am

anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:35 am
What if I collect videos of my WP with 50+% disrupt get blown up by sorc/magus ?
does it prove anything ?

fyi, avoidance in this game happens as chain a lot.
here is my theory.
avoidance is 30% , you hit 100 times.
at the 90th hit, avoid has only occurred 20th. ( because it's random )
last 10 hits are chain avoid in a row.
to catch up 30% number.

at the low hp, this catch up is accelerated.
cuz it had to fill 30% b4 death.
just my theory.

I think defensive tanks saw this many times.
Great theory, but you should probably read how c# handles random.
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Flavorburst
Posts: 68

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#159 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:00 pm

Lileldys wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:45 am
Flavorburst wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am
adamthelc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 am
There should be upside AND a downside to how you build a character. Right now what is the downside for a healer to putting a lot into disrupt?
You get rekt by mdps.
Not really. 20 Renown points for 18% dodge+disrupt is a really good investment for dealing with RDPS, while 30pts in reduced chance to be crit + armour talis protect you from melee dps.
Well, he said "a lot in disrupt". I assume that means going full mongo on it and dumping everything you have into disrupting rdps (wp talismans, etc).

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Tesq
Posts: 4205

Re: [All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough [Close Date TBD]

Post#160 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Flavorburst wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am
adamthelc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 am
There should be upside AND a downside to how you build a character. Right now what is the downside for a healer to putting a lot into disrupt?
You get rekt by mdps.
that would happen if the resource you will have to invest to protect yourself from rdps wont allow you to invest other for protect yourself from melee; atm you can invest in have both and sicne both are in different place like armor tali or disruot/dosge from renown there is no way to make critical choices in that regard. You have all and you also get something for free from min 700 willpwoer on every healers.
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