[Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury

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Tesq
Posts: 4205

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#31 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:03 pm

AxelF wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:29 am
Tesq wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 am
well interesting then if you remove the crit bonus during the channeling and make it even in number of hits with other channeling (just add 1 hit more during channeling) you end with similar number of BG, so if you add one hit more it get

980 of IB VS 971 of BG

then bg can have hate build and ib can have a crit min increase since at 100 it gona overwrite the AF buff by 10%

basically make whole channeling dmg in line by add more
Except EB is a 5 point ability and GBF is a 13 point ability... Plus it's a crit bonus for the length of the channel only, not a crit bonus for X seconds like AF so removing the crit bonus during channeling makes the skill entirely worthless.

I'd say the best change to the skill would be to add a CD increaser - increases enemy's CD by 5 seconds for 10 seconds - though as GBF currently only has a downtime of 5 seconds its own CD would need to be increased, maybe to 15 seconds given its position at 13 points in the tree.

To be honest though the best use of the ability would still probably be to break the channel after 1 hit to apply the debuff and then use some better attacks!
a cd increase is alredy present on mid mastery and some birds tell me mid mastery is not that used so instead make it even less so to be maybe is better something else.
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AxelF
Posts: 85

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#32 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm

The CD increase from the mid mastery tree is almost entirely useless though - a tactic to increase CD by 5 seconds for next 5 seconds on using a skill that knocks down an opponent for 3 seconds. First two GCDs after getting up from a KD are likely to be punt/KB (fight will probably be over before immunity wears off) and pot/other long CD 'oh ****' skill, so it's worthless.

Yes apparently it also applies the CD increase if they're immune to KD but still not really worth taking given the short duration (next 5 seconds only), the fact that it takes a tactic slot on a class that already has a lot of good tactics, and is on a skill that requires block/parry (almost never a problem, but you can bet your ass that the one time you really need it, probably v a healer, it won't be available..). Plus it requires a shield, would nice to have a CD increaser in the left (dps/2H call it what you will) tree.

Dankmeme
Posts: 27

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#33 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:14 am

AxelF wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm
The CD increase from the mid mastery tree is almost entirely useless though - a tactic to increase CD by 5 seconds for next 5 seconds on using a skill that knocks down an opponent for 3 seconds. First two GCDs after getting up from a KD are likely to be punt/KB (fight will probably be over before immunity wears off) and pot/other long CD 'oh ****' skill, so it's worthless.

Yes apparently it also applies the CD increase if they're immune to KD but still not really worth taking given the short duration (next 5 seconds only), the fact that it takes a tactic slot on a class that already has a lot of good tactics, and is on a skill that requires block/parry (almost never a problem, but you can bet your ass that the one time you really need it, probably v a healer, it won't be available..). Plus it requires a shield, would nice to have a CD increaser in the left (dps/2H call it what you will) tree.
This isnt the thread for this

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AxelF
Posts: 85

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#34 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:10 am

No, just highlighting that a CD increaser in left tree would be neither unwelcome nor redundant...

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#35 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:09 am

A CD increaser could be a good change, but would necessitate increasing the CD - lowering overall dps. Doesn't seem justified, given Vengeance = dps.
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AxelF
Posts: 85

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#36 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 am

To be honest I think Volgo's suggestion of turning it from a channel into a 3s DoT is the best option, simple (relatively!) to implement, keeps with the theme/feel of IB dps and would make it worth taking.

Ideally the crit bonus also needs to stack with AF given that it applies only to this one ability.

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Tesq
Posts: 4205

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#37 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 am

AxelF wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:13 am
To be honest I think Volgo's suggestion of turning it from a channel into a 3s DoT is the best option, simple (relatively!) to implement, keeps with the theme/feel of IB dps and would make it worth taking.

Ideally the crit bonus also needs to stack with AF given that it applies only to this one ability.
there is alredy a skil that work that way (heavy blow) and any tanks have a channeling, is a core feature of every tank; strip it would do no good it will results in jsut nerf tank and it would be hen in need afterward to be reintroduced somehow. Fix it to work as a channeling is the best option.
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Bozzax
Posts: 1839

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#38 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:23 am

GBF should hit 6 times not 5 (0s, 0.6s, 1.2s, 1.8s, 2.4s, 3.0s).

Source WHOLAOR_Guide.pdf (cutouts) a bit outdated and flaky but still the only real written source I can find on GBF swing times.

Fix that first please.

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Same as Chosen Relentless
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+20% crits for a total of +35% (~55%-ish with gear + rr) is doable on top of the +10% 2h.''

It unlocks possibly the highest burst a 2h IB (any tank?) can output over 5s (AA, Cave-win (dot 5s), Heavy Blow (hit + dot 3s), GBF-channel (3s, 6hits), queued AA). Not sure if dots gets recalced to benefit from the 20% extra crits tho.



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Spoiler:
Ether Dance 5 times (0s, 0.75s, 1.5s, 2.25s, 3.0s)
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THC started out with 1 hit per second (or 4hits, 0, 1, 2, 3) by the same source. Obviously changed to per 0,8s as per tooltip to match SM (0,75 rounded is 0,8)
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BG would by the same logic (tooltip per 0.5s) hit 7 times (0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0). Knight no clue really as they were added late and tooltip is a bit vague.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Torquemadra
R&D Lead
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Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#39 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:56 pm

adding an extra hit is easy in fact done, changed interval to 600ms

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Smellybelly
Posts: 147

Re: [Ironbreaker] Oathstone and Grudgeborn Fury [Close Date 2nd July]

Post#40 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Torquemadra wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:56 pm
adding an extra hit is easy in fact done, changed interval to 600ms
So the skill got changed now? :D Is it "good enough" like this, to actually spec for i mean?
Maybe get some experienced players to try this out?

EDIT: My bad, i just saw the patchnotes of today. Still, another hit makes it worthwhile?
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