[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

[footpatrol2]

Spoiler:

I don't agree with this morale regen rate but if you want to keep it make it 250ft not 54ft.

Explain why you think that is a valid suggestion. Don't just throw out numbers - Penril.

[Tesq]

since the am problem surfed maybe an ecception could be made for that tactic and be balanced x se since now order dosen't have so many crit that he need 2 healer to heal 1 party insteasd 1.
Also that tactic currently it's unique there is not another one so it can be balance x se.

[footpatrol2]

Any chance of morale gain just being normal as how it was in AoR? I play predominately NA times so I can't see the correct morale gains (AoR morale gain rate) because we don't have multiple warbands rolling around on each side like EU times.

Also unless your a serious EU ORVR guild it is not worth it to spec into the morale 4's because as it stands now it is too situational. Shouldn't the goal be to make the speccable morale 4's more of a viable choice when deciding what spec you should run for the situation? Currently the speccable morale 4's are super situational and can only be reliably used in EU ORvR times unless you got a morale pump.

By having the incorrect morale gain rates your decreasing the effectiveness of all the speccable morale 4's across the server.

There is a entire meta built into this game on how to counter morale's as in morale bombs/defensive morale cycle's. This opens up the meta to different builds that may be a little untraditional. Are you guys planning to rework all those tactic's and abilities? Its easier/safer to rollback then to create.

Here is a example: As we know Black Orc's get a morale pump tactic. I believe that tactic is placed there for several reasons. One reason is for Yer nuthin morale 4.

Yer nuthin is counter play to order defensive morale cycle's/morale bombs, the damage portion is just a nice addition to the morale. In AoR morale 4's with a full group is achieved roughly in 100 sec's. Black Orc's can get there faster then the opposition due to morale pump tactic use, which also mean's due to how Yer nuthin works your in mass stealing morale from anyone that is hit from it which in turn is delaying the oppositions morale bomb/interrupting the defensive morale cycle. Note: defensive morale cycle's are very time dependant so a interruption provides a window of weakness.
A loss of 30 sec's of morale gain over 12 sec's is a big deal with the correct morale gain rates (morale 4's achieved in 100 sec's). Thats a loss of 1080 moral over 12 sec's using AoR morale gain rate (36 morale per sec with full group). This ensure's that your teams/friendly morale bomb will hit first if your dependent on morale 4 bombs. A loss of 30 sec's of morale gain over 12 sec's is meaningless in its current state due to slow morale gain rates.

This is only one example of many morale 4's that are now deemed too situational to spec into. It does have a situation to be used in when the morale's have the correct morale gain rates and players are making use of morale bombs/defensive morale cycle's. It doesn't have a situation to be used in when the morale gain rates are incorrect/extremely long. There are many other things I could list that are largely affected by incorrect morale gain rates such as Banish Weakness from the BG.

Having the incorrect morale gain rates also puts a overemphasis on morale 1 and 2 in small scale fights and will make players favor morale 1 and 2 over juicier morale 3 and 4's.

[Jaycub]

I don't know what the intention for morale pumps is/was, but destro tanks still getting ID virtually every 60 seconds and rotating it. Both from my experience playing against destro premades, and running our own destro groups.

Destro was already arguably better than order overall, and since this thread every order group has lost 10% to all crit from knight nerfs, SW leading shots got cut nearly in half, and shatter limbs/pounce got gutted. Only major thing that happened to destro is dok m2 got slightly nerfed but is still an S rank morale that removes virtually all heal debuffs etc...

A bit of salt, sorry if it's out of line.

[blaqwar]

I don't know what the intention for morale pumps is/was, but destro tanks still getting ID virtually every 60 seconds and rotating it. Both from my experience playing against destro premades, and running our own destro groups.

Destro was already arguably better than order overall, and since this thread every order group has lost 10% to all crit from knight nerfs, SW leading shots got cut nearly in half, and shatter limbs/pounce got gutted. Only major thing that happened to destro is dok m2 got slightly nerfed but is still an S rank morale that removes virtually all heal debuffs etc...

A bit of salt, sorry if it's out of line.

Spoiler:

I don't think you understand how this game works. Destro need to be able to cycle M4s every 60 seconds to be able to survive the unslaught of Order's superior careers careers. Slayers are much better than Choppas, SMs are basically unkillable MDPS with guard, IBs just spam Cave Win and Earthshatter and never die and Knights, well when they show up they blind their opponents with their blazing coifs and codpieces rendering opposition helpless. Then there's WL pets soloing DoKs and Engineers solo killing warbands with their kegs, their 200 feet range, 40% dodge/disrupt, and all the AoE damage one would want. Oh and let's not talk about BWs.

:^)

Seriously tho, destro tanks seem to have morales available at nearly all times and it is noticable. But despite that somehow the two sides seem balanced when it comes to small-scale. It doesn't feel like Destro tank morales are giving them a huge upper hand, if an advantage is there it's certainly not immediately obvious to me.

Take that however you will, it's a purely subjective view from my limited experience. Destro have tank morales, yes. Doesn't seem to be helping them.

[dur3al]

That is because morals scale with enemies around.. guess what? Tanks will be around some since they're front line.

But the problem remains for back-line pumps like the AM one as I explained like weeks ago yet the problem still persists, which is why this change has killed completely moral pump for the AM.

[footpatrol2]

If the reason on withholding the original morale gain rate is because of ID then maybe ID should be specifically looked at/changed and not the original morale gain rates in general.

Please note that 100 sec's to get to morale 4 is just the generic base morale gain rate. In AoR you could make use of banners (which would ADD morale gain) and morale gain items to further increase your morale gain rate. AND at one time take a racial morale gain tactic which added 30 to 25% more morale gain. Meaning you could achieve morale 4 in less then 100 sec's. The morale 4's are suppose to be poping off in less then 100 sec's (likely around 1 minute) for everyone. order and destro. If you valued morale pushes (which I did/do) you would try to make use of all these tools.

The destro tank morale pump tactics have more meaning when the morale gain rates are dramatically slower. If the morale gain rates were the same as AoR they wouldn't be as important and loses some value.

Banners adding morale gain. Skip to minute 6:05 to see how banners contributed to morale gain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbDE9cwZVck

By the way banners are also part of the overall balance of the game. I suspect that one of the major reasons on why you don't see a lot of out of group abilities/tactics/morale's is to not steal from the importance of banners. Because banners affected 36 players when planted.

[Azarael]

That is because morals scale with enemies around.. guess what? Tanks will be around some since they're front line.

Except any enemy within 375 feet of you counts for morale, and the post clearly implicates Destined For Victory and You'z See Me Blok Dat?! because it's talking about Destruction tanks. This has nothing to do with modified base morale gain mechanics, and those "tactics" are still effectively passive 3x Morale Gain in most situations, which is less of a "tactic" and more of a "mandatory acquisition". They still need looking at.

But the problem remains for back-line pumps like the AM one as I explained like weeks ago yet the problem still persists, which is why this change has killed completely moral pump for the AM.

Yes, the problem still persists, despite your indignation. It persists because a) I've grown a little tired of being pilloried for changes so I'm not doing anything myself and am leaving finer changes to the internal balance group and b) because without the patcher (and thus changing tooltips) I'm not interested in adjusting morale pumps and drains yet. Tooltips have already been updated to talk about Morale in terms of "seconds of Morale gained/lost" rather than flat values, and we'll work from there.

<live morale gain rate>

This ship has sailed. I have different ideas. You can talk as much as you want about how you think AoR's gain rate is integral to the game design, but I'm not listening, sorry.

[Gerv]

Question answered, this post can be removed so not to obstruct the discussion.

[Azarael]

No. Morale pumps and drains scale with the morale scaler, but their base value was reduced, so that with maximum morale scale, they restore their tooltip values.