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[Choppa] No More Helpin'

Structured balance proposals should be posted here. Posts in this section will be taken into account during class balance reviews.
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phononHYPE
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[Choppa] No More Helpin'

Post#1 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:25 am

This concerns the usefulness of the choppa middle tree, Path of da Hitta, and its 13 talent No More Helpin' (NMH). I present arguments for improving NMH and giving more reasons to choose Path of da Hitta tree as a useful spec to players of different styles (solo, small group, SC, WB, and maybe PVE), by showing general strength and utility of the other trees vs Hitta tree.

Savage has Can't Stop Da Chop (heal debuff), Bring Da Pain (party-WS buff), channel self-heal, and positional best single target dps ability Go Fer Da Soft Spot. Wrecka has self survival buff (Bring Da Pain!), 3 target aoe > 9 target with trained tactic (Lottsa Choppin and Extra Choppin respectively), frontal cone dot (Yer All Bleedin Now!), channeled aoe that increases damage based on recent people attacking you (Bring It On) that lets face it, will almost always be boosted to 60% bonus damage. Last in Wrecka are the trained abilities Chop Fasta! (party CD reducer) and everyone's favorite, Get To Da Choppa!.

I reiterate those to show the power and utility of each of these trees. Savage has the slef-heal everyone needs, utility for (melee) party with WS buff, and a 10s heal debuff; Wrecka has the applicable aoe and mez that everyone needs, with a party buff/counter debuff to CDs. With recent Slayer/mSH changes to their CD increase abilities reduced to 3s, Chop Fasta! seems a bit more competitive vs Black Orc tactics that does this more often. Hitta only offers a slow dot (Bleed Em Out), small self damage boost via Hurtin' Time, rotation filler Slasha, and a decent finisher for 2h, Weaklin Killer. No More Helpin is basically a glorified WK, a bit more damage with some rarely used 2nd ability (outgoing heal debuff - see below for further argument).

Main argument, on why Path of da Hitta is mediocre to decent but offers no real reason to choose over the other trees:
Slasha is a x3 stackable toughness debuff
Spoiler:
compared to the following classes that have max toughness debuffs on just showing up (Chosen) or 1-hit application (DoK, Shaman, Marauder, Witch Elf) and the other classes that provide debuffs in one application (zealot armor/corp, marauder armor_debuff/wound_debuff, magus spirit debuff, squig herder armor_debuff, black guard chance_to_be_crit/wound_debuff, and sorcerer single target spirit debuff). The point here is that even for trained abilities, choppa (and slayer) have to stack this ability. The only other stackable ability I can think of is BG Mind Killer, and that is an awesome ability that should require a build-up.
Argument, Slasha is middle of the road for usefulness - its a good rotation filler. Hurtin Time is a decent little addition to damage and seems balanced. Sit Down! is our KD, and requires a build-up so it can not be used on command. Its undefendable so that balances it out I guess. The other two abilities are finishers, one good and with a CD (Weaklin Killer), the other is spamable (Reckless Blow - assuming Wot Rules, or 3 hits with Pent Up Rage) and does damage about equal to Go Fer Da Soft Spot. I like both of these as WK will generally be the go-to finisher, and RB offers comparable damage (with required tactics) to GFDSS should you choose your second tree as Wrecka. For trained abilities, Bleed Em Out, despite what others have posted, I feel this is fine based on my use and testing. Tired Already? (9 point) is a poorly implemented option as the CD increase is at best situational, and the damage component is lower than the the (5pt) Savage ability Keep On Choppin. Not everything needs a perfect spot, so the CD increase could have its uses - I pass no further judgment.
Main point, No More Helpin' has great damage potential for a finisher but that is all. The added component of debuffing out-going heals is rarely used. To be used in a fight you need to be on the healer, which means they are either horribly positioned or their team is already broken and they are running. No choppa will ever get that close in general, even with a guard and dedicated heals. Used on non-healer doing their minor self-heal is not that great and the damage component is more important.

Proposal
Add an additional component to the heal outgoing debuff. I initially thought of 3 options: remove some buff, make it crit, or make it interrupt. I feel keeping the outgoing heal debuff should be kept as it is pretty situational and keeps the thematic name-sake.
Spoiler:
Looking around I see the slayer's same 13 point ability (lower tooltip damage but same with even 1 buff that it would remove) so I remove that option. WL and Mara have auto crit options, and though it takes some set up with tactics and friends, you could have the NMH CD reduced to 2.5 easily (Wot Rules+Red Goes Faster+Finish' Em Faster) or 0 CD with another choppa or BO (CD reducer+Wot Rules+RGF) and that seems too cheesy.
Adding an interrupt would give NMH more of a use for all levels of play and is thematic with the name.

Thank you for your consideration, and my apologies for the length.
Chasing the golden carrot that is my alts.

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