Resolute Defenses redesigned

[Miszczu5647]

I would seriously talk about renown skills such as Cleansing Wind, Resolute Defenses and Quick Escape. All those skills have similar issues and was poorly designed as solution for soloers (I don't say that soloing is bad thing as such) by making it a lot easier. Also, as these skill are so important to every class, they take flavor from different class and make everything flat (no different play style on different classes). On the other hand smaller groups should have some tools to engage and disengage against bigger groups (guerrilla tactics).

Third will be Resolute Defenses.

Issues
1. Makes everyone to use it.
RD is ultimate answer to all obstacles someone could meet at the battlefield. You want to charge into enemy line – RD. You want to follow your dps as a tank – RD. You want to make sure that your victim won't escape after you jump form the shadows – RD. It kill creativity and make any other skills incorporated into our toons unimportant.

2. No counter play/Easy to use.
RD is impossible to counter. When RD is up no cc works. So someone with RD don't need to pay any attention to this part of game and can focus on dpsing. And you need to sacrifice only one GCD for this.

3. Poor reward/risk ratio.
There is no risk in using RD. And this skill increase your damage potential. It should be defensive tool (Resolute Defenses right?).

Solution
And something like this to all level of RD:
When RD is up your dmg is halved.

This way RD will be engage/disengage tool. Will have some risk incorporated into it. And will need carefully evaluation when to use it (higher difficulty level).

[Gerv]

Moving to discussions - note, I will be away from 5th June to 13th June, so this will get locked temporarily.
Gerv.

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

[snip]

This is not a vote. If you prefer the proposal as presented, prepare to defend the proposal if others take issue with it.

[Atropik]

I
Solution
And something like this to all level of RD:
When RD is up your dmg is halved.

Spoiler:

And after all the crappy issues you made, you have suggested 50% penalty for dps classes? Brilliant. So what is the idea? can you please describe me the situation, when core Dps player have to use that RD 2.0? To escape? While tanks/healers will do the same things all the way with RD. xd According to your suggestion, it could be better to disable RD for Dps classes.

Listen to what i say bud, everything works fine as it is now, any further reworking of rd/cw will only effect soloers/duo runners, it will passively buff CC and DoT-dependant (mostly order) rdps, and nerf mdps, makin some classes like WE/WH/Choppa totaly unplayable in solo.

I repeat, reworking of RD/CW will have 0 (ZERO) effect on any large-scale amount fights.

Here is a link to the rules: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11105

1. 1. Do not make arguments based on engagements smaller than 6v6.

However, the points regarding buffing passively buffing CC and DoT based classes and impact for tank and healer classes is relevant and would give cause to a discussion regarding them as well.
Gerv.

[th3gatekeeper]

Resolute Defense is just super broken. As you said , it solves every problem and frankly.breaks the game.

Mdps goes in with RD up, attacks and can escape with zero fear of getting caught or trapped.

Tanks can use it to avoid punt - creating zero counter play for guard.

RDPS can use it to indefinitely kite...

Resolute Defense should not provide CC immunity. It breaks the game. Rather, I think it should be something to counter short TTK in RvR. Where it flat out reduces incoming damage by 15% for 10 seconds. Kinda like a mini Vigilance. Something classes can use to avoid getting nuked, but a niche skill for a niche time. This would fix it from breaking any meta or gameplay.

As suggested with CW. Each rank should remain 5min CD. With each improvement possibly adding some extra advantage maybe like 10% dodge, disrupt and parry for duration.


Or CD can be lowered but.cost of each rank bumped to 15.

Cw and RD should not be hands down better then other options as they are now.

[Darosh]

I
Solution
And something like this to all level of RD:
When RD is up your dmg is halved.

And after all the crappy issues you made, you have suggested 50% penalty for dps classes? Brilliant. So what is the idea? can you please describe me the situation, when core Dps player have to use that RD 2.0? To escape? While tanks/healers will do the same things all the way with RD. xd According to your suggestion, it could be better to disable RD for Dps classes.

Listen to what i say bud, everything works fine as it is now, any further reworking of rd/cw will only effect soloers/duo runners, it will passively buff CC and DoT-dependant (mostly order) rdps, and nerf mdps, makin some classes like WE/WH/Choppa totaly unplayable in solo.

I repeat, reworking of RD/CW will have 0 (ZERO) effect on any high-scale in amount fights.

It makes for braindead warband movement in coordinated ORvR, by making CC an absolute nonissue for the <few seconds> of engagements it enables. Why few seconds? Well, engagements cannot last particularly long if you can completly uncontested blow the entirety of your load within its duration.

As it comes to anything smallscale related, you will be able to completly shutdown any efforts made - any level of coordination - by pressing the button to get off scotsfree with an immunity, ontop of being able to mindlessly stab away at your opposition.
Run a group dedicated to kiting? Well, blow RD and kite away whilst saturating your opposition with sorc/bw rotations - preferably head towards your warcamp in the process.

But yes, I do agree with you, tanks and healers have not been accounted for in the OP's proposal.

In regards to that bit about soloers/duoers... thats a pug argument if I ever saw one, no?

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@Gerv: Fixed the format of the following. I hope you don't mind me reutilizing this post instead of making another with the same content.
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Solution:
Drastically reduce the duration of RD, 5s or sub 5s - force people to time it better. Disable the trait that gifts immunities.
Add -x% dmg/heal/avoidance to it.

Abbd.: Alternatively to disabling the immunity-gifting trait reduce the duration of immunities granted significantly.

Issues addressed:
OP does not account for tanks and healers using the ability without impunity/drawbacks and with too good of a return
due the trait granting players immunities based on the CC that was nullified.

Reasoning:
You will be able dodge some CC, but you won't be able to roll in and mindlessly stab away anymore without repercussions.
You won't be able to just sit there mindlessly spamming heal/guardbotting away.
You won't be able to run ridiculous kiting groups that go completely unpunished, or field meleetrains that just roll over their opposition/keyboards.
You won't be able to completly uncontested blow your load in coordinated ORvR WB engagements, you'll have to actually coordinate the movement of your players.
You won't come out ontop in every single instance of use as you will not be gifted an immunity effectively upping the skills duration by up to +20s and with that its overall uptime on the long run.

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Sidenote: In regards to my first post in the thread: Gotcha. Would delete it if I could to make some room in here.

When posting an alternative solution. Use the headings as the OP please, additionally, you need to prove, with reason and evidence why the issues and/or solution he proposed are not effective (i.e. respond to the proposal not just add another based on your opinion) in a concise manor.
i.e. Solution: (as done)
Issues addressed: x,y,,z
Reasoning: a,b,c (as listed)

Gerv.

[Atropik]

Resolute Defense should not provide CC immunity. It breaks the game.

Spoiler:

Lack of side-balance breaks the game, RD is fine. Tons of CC was implemented into the game after RD release.

Cherry picking at its finest. Warned, Gerv.

[dansari]

I've stated it before as a joke but honestly I don't see a drawback. The main concerns I see from people are that classes "get something they shouldn't/isn't part of their kit." So, make it so that only tanks can get RD, DPS can get CW, and healers can get QE. This way you're limiting who can do what. It makes sense "kit-wise" that tanks can get a juggernaut buster, that DPS can have an ohshi button/extra survivability, and healers get extra kiting mechanisms. You'll see a balance - now WE/WH can't be immune whenever they pop out on you. Now shamans can't be immune when kiting (but they keep kiting tools). RDPS can't RD a Mara/WL pull, etc.

This goes a step further than the OP because I don't think a damage reduction solves the problem in *some* cases. But, I'm less upset if a tank is able to juggernaut into a front line with RD up than with an mdps.

[roadkillrobin]

Resolute Defense should not provide CC immunity. It breaks the game.

Lack of side-balance breaks the game, RD is fine. Tons of CC was implemented into the game after RD release.

This is incorrect. RD was implemented to the game mainly as a response to the Quake/Heaven' Fury being part of almoast every single strategy. The side that landed a stagger on the moast enemy healer would win the fight. Both Q and HF duration have been heavily reduced

CW, QE, RD etz lacks comparability with the other stats you are able to invest in with renown points and is very hard to vallueate in the same way.

They also, like mentioned above, give classes acess to toolkits that their class wasn't designed to have acess to. And they also contribute to the Kite instead of Fight mentallity.

They should just be inactivated imo. I don't think any comprimise can be made with these skills.

[Atropik]

This is incorrect. RD was implemented to the game mainly as a response to the Quake/Heaven' Fury being part of almoast every single strategy. The side that landed a stagger on the moast enemy healer would win the fight. Both Q and HF duration have been heavily reduced

Conter 30 sec cd CC with 5 min cd immune? That was your own plan? Have you ever successed?