Stealth Nerf to Magus Damage?

[chook06]

Small patch this morning, and boom my Magus PBAoE rotation is suddenly doing 19–22% less damage.

[abezverkhiy]

Lol you expected this to last forever?

[chook06]

There are two separate issues here.

First: why wasn’t this change announced?

Second: PBAoE Magus has to put itself directly in danger by fighting at close range. The whole risk/reward logic is that taking that additional risk should come with higher damage.

And unlike a White Lion, a Magus doesn’t have the same toolkit to survive and operate in melee: it doesn’t have the same mobility, nor an AoE detaunt.

So let’s not mix everything together. PBAoE Magus is a very specific playstyle with its own risks and constraints. It shouldn’t be lumped together with ranged AoE or single-target damage when discussing balance.

[M0rw47h]

PBAoE Magus was the only that should get any buffs, other builds actualy deserved nerfs, but w/e.

[aa91837]

what a great balance patch for engi/magus

kek

[chook06]

Okay, I probably shouldn’t have posted that. Now it’s either going to be chain knockbacks or completely off-topic replies.

[abezverkhiy]

Okay, I probably shouldn’t have posted that. Now it’s either going to be chain knockbacks or completely off-topic replies.

Mate, I want to apologize for my stupid irony. Just think logically - imbalance when it is ridiculously obvious will never last long. And magi were made ridiculously overpowered. I cannot comprehend who in the right mind gave 'go ahead' to this poor work.

[chook06]

Once again: under what circumstances?

Simply saying that Magus is "overpowered" without specifying the spec, the context, and the conditions required to achieve those results doesn't really add much to the discussion.

Yes, single-target is strong, nobody is denying that. But that spec suffered from one major issue: lack of mobility. In team play, having 2-second casts is a real constraint. Fights evolve extremely quickly: the target or situation you chose at the beginning of the cast may no longer be the right one two seconds later.

And more importantly, Magus doesn't deliver its big damage instantly. It relies on a relatively long sequence, with damage that has to be built up over time. Yes, it can hit very hard, but there are several constraints involved in actually reaching those numbers. Looking only at the final damage number without considering how it was produced gives a very incomplete picture of reality. And that's without even mentioning pet management... Anyway.

When it comes to AoE, and PBAoE in particular, Magus was starting from a very weak position. PBAoE was seriously underperforming, while traditional AoE was mostly good at generating pressure, with a lot of its damage often being described as fluff — sometimes rightfully so. There is also the issue of stacking multiple Magi: a significant portion of their actually useful damage can effectively only be provided by one Magus.

There's a reason why, for a long time, many warband leaders simply didn't want Magi in their compositions anymore.

Sure, there's still solo play, but in an MMORPG... who cares?

Today, AoE Magus and PBAoE even more so has become a genuine alternative to the other AoE/PBAoE classes. That's a significant improvement considering where the class was starting from.

But people need to stop confusing big numbers with actually useful damage. A huge number on a parser, by itself, tells you nothing about a class's ability to turn that damage into meaningful pressure, burst at the right moment, or actual kills.

[Farrul]

Simply saying that Magus is "overpowered" without specifying the spec, the context, and the conditions required to achieve those results doesn't really add much to the discussion.

Yes, single-target is strong, nobody is denying that. But that spec suffered from one major issue: lack of mobility. In team play, having 2-second casts is a real constraint. Fights evolve extremely quickly: the target or situation you chose at the beginning of the cast may no longer be the right one two seconds later.

And more importantly, Magus doesn't deliver its big damage instantly. It relies on a relatively long sequence, with damage that has to be built up over time. Yes, it can hit very hard, but there are several constraints involved in actually reaching those numbers. Looking only at the final damage number without considering how it was produced gives a very incomplete picture of reality. And that's without even mentioning pet management... Anyway.

Sure this one easy. The context in which Magi is broken is the singletarget DPS ratio to how well it can survive, if it squisher it would be alright ( like the ST Engineer).

It can literally blow players away in seconds from 110ft range, whilst having too much survivability for these damage capabilities.

First take a look at the magis tools, top tier CC, aoe KD, snares etc. Very strong self-buffs ( 800 armor, 300+ all resistances). Magic based itemization meaning it doesn't build any Weapon Skill and this is PRECISELY WHY the mirror class, the Engineer is balanced, since it's a fragile glass-cannon if it ever whish to have Magi levels of DPS.

Even if Magi goes glass-cannon stacking around 58-59% crit chance, it will have around 2,9-3k armor in BIS, easily 10-11k wounds with the activation of 1 button (Aegies of orange flames). A pet which applies strong debuffs etc.

As for your final point, this isn't true. Magi rotation doesn't take long at all and it can literally kill players before you even reach to its feet, you don't even need a full rotation to kill stuff since they melt already from the dots and the 370 debuff the pet applies( which the Magi doesn't even use a GCD to apply).

Hence they are roaming abominations with this patch notes, just a different version of the ''Def WE'' it replaced. (Yes i know DPS Runepriests are OP before any destro starts the QQ, but that is a separate topic).

[M0rw47h]

Simply saying that Magus is "overpowered" without specifying the spec, the context, and the conditions required to achieve those results doesn't really add much to the discussion.

Yes, single-target is strong, nobody is denying that. But that spec suffered from one major issue: lack of mobility. In team play, having 2-second casts is a real constraint. Fights evolve extremely quickly: the target or situation you chose at the beginning of the cast may no longer be the right one two seconds later.

And more importantly, Magus doesn't deliver its big damage instantly. It relies on a relatively long sequence, with damage that has to be built up over time. Yes, it can hit very hard, but there are several constraints involved in actually reaching those numbers. Looking only at the final damage number without considering how it was produced gives a very incomplete picture of reality. And that's without even mentioning pet management... Anyway.

Sure this one easy. The context in which Magi is broken is the singletarget DPS ratio to how well it can survive, if it squisher it would be alright ( like the ST Engineer).

It can literally blow players away in seconds from 110ft range, whilst having too much survivability for these damage capabilities.

First take a look at the magis tools, top tier CC, aoe KD, snares etc. Very strong self-buffs ( 800 armor, 300+ all resistances). Magic based itemization meaning it doesn't build any Weapon Skill and this is PRECISELY WHY the mirror class, the Engineer is balanced, since it's a fragile glass-cannon if it ever whish to have Magi levels of DPS.

Even if Magi goes glass-cannon stacking around 58-59% crit chance, it will have around 2,9-3k armor in BIS, easily 10-11k wounds with the activation of 1 button (Aegies of orange flames). A pet which applies strong debuffs etc.

As for your final point, this isn't true. Magi rotation doesn't take long at all and it can literally kill players before you even reach to its feet, you don't even need a full rotation to kill stuff since they melt already from the dots and the 370 debuff the pet applies( which the Magi doesn't even use a GCD to apply).

Hence they are roaming abominations with this patch notes, just a different version of the ''Def WE'' it replaced. (Yes i know DPS Runepriests are OP before any destro starts the QQ, but that is a separate topic).

Thread is about PBAoE Magus, not ST... like those you played in CS back in the day.